Mike Meenderink

On 8/3/2023 at 4:10 PM, aleccomix said:

@Coinbuf @Mike Meenderink    So much more drama than I was expecting for a coin forum . Not sure how far back your feud goes, but I feel like you're both overreacting against each other in this specific thread. I can't even tell what specifically it is that you're disagreeing about here. It seems like MM's only (potential) wrongdoing was his level of confidence (which I'm still not sure is unwarranted based on this specific thread)-- all he had to do was use more phrasing like 'i believe' or 'in my opinion'.  Coinbuf, again I'm not sure about these other threads you're mentioning, but I think it's a bit aggressive to use the word 'misinformation' for nuanced topics like this where there isn't always a clearly defined right or wrong opinion. It's not as if MM was deliberately sharing information he knew was wrong. 

This is my first time on this forum, and I'd call myself more of a hobbyist than a serious collector-- that said, I wouldn't have asked a forum if these questions had clear cut answers (I can get easy answers from 5 mins of research online).

I really appreciate all the time and thought everyone has put into helping me learn more about my coin!

Hey sorry.. some of these guys in here want to be the smartest and have all the answers. These few even go as far as to talk smack, split hairs and dispute any slight inaccuracies or typos just to make themselves feel smart. I just answered your question before they could. So butt hurt they want to be the best and try to show everyone how much smarter they are than the rest of us. I stated harshly cleaned in another post and they went to work about how its just cleaned... I stated here this coin would not benefit from the toning upon grading..they go to work... These guys are the mental midgets of NGC. I just enjoy examining coins and describing them in this manner when someone asks I give my educated opinion. Am I always right? NO but I am in this case. They know it and they are just to stubborn to admit it. COIN WARS! LOL    

On 8/3/2023 at 10:00 AM, Coinbuf said:

@aleccomix Some of the information in this post is false and I would caution against putting too much faith in this person, he just showed up recently and has been posting a fair amount of misinformation.   TPG's do in fact grade coins higher if they feel the look of the coin (including any toning) enhances the eye appeal portion of the grade.   Typically, this is only one grade point but there is no definitive formula or number of grade points that a coin might be bumped for eye appeal when graded.

Yhea Mr Know It All you just have to have the last word. Toning is tarnish. Eye appeal is subjective. Graders do not consider toning as a metric since that subjective metric is widely varied. The presence of appealing toning may not DETRACT from a coins grade but it would not increase the grade in any way. You are wrong. Stop trying to discredit my opinions. Ita not a good look for you.

On 8/3/2023 at 8:59 AM, VKurtB said:

Read the requirements for bulk submissions, dope.

I have . But you must admit you are wrong. There are less than fully graded options to holder coins. Period. You are wrong. Split as many hairs as you like but you are flat out wrong

TRIGGERED WITH TRUTH bAHAHAHA

Hey smartguy try using a dealer that can bulk submit your coin or coins. Then you can do ALL of that. Dingleberry

On 8/3/2023 at 8:53 AM, VKurtB said:

Why yes. You are a m-o-r-o-n. All of those types of grading are at the decision of the grader, and are NOT A DECISION open to a collector. There is only one type of SUBMISSION (except for promotional items) available to collectors. There is no lower tier for “GENUINE” or “ADJECTIVAL” that a collector can select. The ONLY type available to the collector is the full Sheldon Scale grade. I’ll wait here for you to show me where I can select anything of the kind on an NGC form. 

That's what I thought....(crickets sing softly in the silent morning air) 

Anything else you would like to teach me Kurt?

On 8/3/2023 at 8:17 AM, VKurtB said:

You really don’t know squat in this field, do you? Have you EVER taken a grading course? Have you ever attended the ANA Summer Seminar? Do you have any numismatic awards? There is no “fully graded” or “less than fully graded” that exists. Stop it, Mike! You’re embarrassing yourself. 

Yes Mr KNOW IT ALL a coin can be graded 1. GENUINE  2. ADJECTIVAL (no sheldon number) or FULLY GRADED With Sheldon scale specific numerical grade. PLease STFU

On 7/31/2023 at 7:33 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Better ...but..This one has been previously cleaned and retoned. Most likely in an album (from the organic brown staining) My guess is it was harshly cleaned in the 50s collectors craze then booked in an album where it re toned like this. Then it was broken from an estate set years ago. My grade and evaluation is XF DETAILS CLEANED 

On 8/3/2023 at 7:36 AM, VKurtB said:

When and how it was cleaned is the important factor, not a binary yes/no decision. If this was cleaned, is was gently and a long time ago. What IS obvious from studying this coin is that it spent a virtual eternity in an old style album. That’s what accounts for the toning pattern. There are no cleaning hairlines present nor are there the signs of cleaning around the stars in the protected areas. The more open field areas are light because of actual handling, nothing more. 

If you need anymore help let me know ...bahaha

On 8/3/2023 at 8:17 AM, VKurtB said:

You really don’t know squat in this field, do you?

Yhea.. you got me You parrot what I post then challenge my opinions...you sir are a baffoon

Harshly cleaned.. gently cleaned makes no difference its still cleaned. I've never seen a holdered coin that says Details Gently Cleaned....but others here seem to know everything. Send it in and find out. I would at least certify this coin and have it placed in an NGC or PCGS Genuine label holder. If you want to spend the money on fully grading it by all means do it. Its your coin. Its your money. Oh and Kurt I already said everything you posted below. Thanks for reading it. 

On 8/3/2023 at 7:36 AM, VKurtB said:

When and how it was cleaned is the important factor, not a binary yes/no decision. If this was cleaned, is was gently and a long time ago. What IS obvious from studying this coin is that it spent a virtual eternity in an old style album. That’s what accounts for the toning pattern. There are no cleaning hairlines present nor are there the signs of cleaning around the stars in the protected areas. The more open field areas are light because of actual handling, nothing more. 

On 8/2/2023 at 10:03 PM, aleccomix said:

I don't believe it's toned more since being previously graded--the attached pics are from the time of grading. Thank you for the detailed and clear response! Is it possible that ngc might consider toning as a flaw when determining the overall grade? 

Yes but... NGC, PCGS etc can determine if the coin was artificially or naturally toned. In those cases an authentic coin which has been artificially toned is given a non numerical Details grade stating artificial toning. Your coin however has been graded and given a straight adjectival/ numerical grade (VF30 -35) which indicates the toning is natural as well as pleasing to the eye. On RARE occasions coins with too much "toning" or dark toning that severely limits the ability to see the devices of the coin are sometimes graded Details Environmental Damage. So in short toning can be a double edged sword. Cuts both ways.

The coin is made of silver. Silver is subject to tarnishing from environmental conditions. Toning is a light surface oxidation that can occur on any silver coin at any time. Depending on the environment the coin is stored in and how it is stored can contribute to the different colors developing on the coins surface. If it has toned in the holder since you looked at it last be aware coins do tone in the holders. The NGC, PCGS and ANACS holders are not hermetically sealed from the outside environment. Toning is a subjective coin attribute. Some love it some hate it. This is a nice coin with a great rainbow toning pattern. Graders do not award extra "points" for toning when grading the coin. Collectors do however pay a premium for holdered attractive naturally toned straight graded coins. Cheers

There has only been 1 coin ever graded MSRDP for the 1988 Lincoln cent. That coin was graded MS 66 RDP and has a value of $35.00. Your coin is not RD its RB and it is not proof like. Your coin also grades in the MS 62 range. Its worth about $1.00. Cheers!

On 8/1/2023 at 1:51 PM, VKurtB said:

I see none of the classic indicia of a harsh cleaning. This is a market acceptable straight grading coin.

I see a severely impaired surface with clean pitting holes and newer black pitting spots. This indicates cleaning and retoning over many years. The brownish black corrosion (toning) looks like it is from being kept in a stiff cardboard paper coin book or album for many years. IMO this coin has been cleaned and re toned. Still it is as you said above a very nice details coin for its type. Any coin of this era unless badly damaged (even then some want them) cleaned or not are IMO worth conserving or collecting.

On 7/31/2023 at 8:13 PM, powermad5000 said:

@Mike Meenderink the coin in the slab you posted here is also NOT an error. It is a variety. If it were an error, NGC would have attributed it as such unless the original submitter did not pay the $18 Mint Error fee, BUT, that being said, the condition of the coin in the slab does not fit the definition of what coins are a mint error anyhow. Thus it is a variety, not an error.

WHATEVER.. YES IT'S A DIE VARIETY MINT ERROR. AS IT'S NOT AS ITS SUPPOSED TO BE. THANKS CAPT OBVIOUS

REDIRECTION: LOOK FOR REAL ATTRIBUTED ERRORS LIKE THE COIN BELOW! ONLY 4 EVER GRADED AND VERY POSSIBLE MORE ARE STILL OUT THERE! READ ABOUT THESE COINS. DON'T SPIN YOUR WHEELS. GOODLUCK!

These may be reproductions but I believe the coin with the -script on it is from the Ottoman Empire (1299-1923) And the smaller one with the face is a Roman coin from the time of Emperor Constantine The Great (306-377 CE).

That's just damage from a coin rolling machine. As others have stated here if you are going to look for error pennies then at least look for a real one.If you want something to shoot for that is realistic here's your target. Find one in this condition and its #5 of 4 ever graded and will be worth thousands. First read about this coin. Then read about the newly attributed error. Goodluck.

Better ...but..This one has been previously cleaned and retoned. Most likely in an album (from the organic brown staining) My guess is it was harshly cleaned in the 50s collectors craze then booked in an album where it re toned like this. Then it was broken from an estate set years ago. My grade and evaluation is XF DETAILS CLEANED 

On 7/30/2023 at 2:55 PM, VKurtB said:

This is not true. Coins with wear get MS61 or MS62 every stinking day. The controversy is whether the entire AU range even exists, and that is a matter of nationality and cultural preference. I OWN two coins that have very minor high point wear that are graded NGC MS65. Their color is immaculate and the strikes are magnificent. You can argue until you’re blue in the face that there’s a hard and fast line between the 50’s and the 60’s. That doesn’t make it so. You can say it OUGHT TO BE that way. You can even say it USED TO BE that way. But to say that it IS THAT WAY is simply a bald-faced lie. 

Kurt there is such a thing as die deterioration which graders factor in grading certain years and mints. Some coins were struck with detail deficiencies that appear as wear but alas are not. The 1908 Indian head cent is one example of a coin that appears to have wear on the head dress feathers on some coins but the rest of the wear on the coin does not match. This is due to late stage die deterioration or polishing and weakly struck coin run. A 1908 Indian would be a coin that if in the MS range would grade MS with apparent wear which is not actually wear. 

I am very sorry to tell you but that coin has been cleaned. The surface characteristics are indicative of a an over dipped coin (small cleaned pitting holes). It also has cleaning marks near all the stains. It's a nice details coin but it has been improperly cleaned. Sorry 

IMO THATS A FAKE. The C was left off to subvert the federal government's wrath. It should be tested for metal type, purity, weight, diameter, thickness to confirm but it looks to me like a copy of a coin made from an impression of a real coin. The probability of a completely clean field area with an omitted major part of the design due to a grease fill die is very low. At least some mark would be present IMO.

Thats a fake. Could you please destroy the coin? Technically if the coin is not marked copy it is a violation of federal counterfeiting law. That type of thing floating around is very bad for coin collecting. Especially for those that are not as familiar with coins of that type. Another option is to counterstamp it COPY or NOT GENUINE. Thanks

NOBODY ASKED FOR THEIR OPINIONS NOBODY ASKED THEM TO OPINE ON AND ON ABOUT "PROPER CLEANING" AND "IM SO STUPID" AND "YOUVE GOT A LOT TO LEARN" THEY NEED TO GET OVER THEMSELVES