Sharann

1 minute ago, JKK said:

To amplify: while the weight will be low, perhaps 10% low due to wear that has taken the coin to basal state, it'll be a limiter. At the very least, the original coin must have weighed at least that much. And if we get it blown up that much, if bsshog40's letters are visible, we might be able to make a couple of them out. It would not take our international specialists very many cues to zero in. Please also shoot the edge; let's see if it's reeded or what.

Got it! 

Just now, JKK said:

That's not what I would do. I'd first get well zoomed-in shots of both sides, well cropped, blow it up as big as we can. With the side that has a little remaining detail, try assuming that the image should be rotated about 30 degrees clockwise. Get a precise measurement of diameter (looks like 41 but you could be more precise) and weight in grams. Also, if you have any idea where it was collected, would care about that. If I'm going swimming in Krause, I want to be looking for the right thing.

I will do the best I can. My microscope and scales should finally be here Tuesday and I should be able to get an accurate weight and much better pictures. I can tell you that the bag it was in looked like this:

9 minutes ago, Mr.Bill347 said:

It looks similar to this

Yes, sir. It does. 

2 minutes ago, JKK said:

Looks like a bird grasping a bundle of arrows. Just not sure which country. But it's a country that minted 41mm silver coins in the modern era (when planchets became consistent in size).

Like I said earlier, my eyes are gonna have to learn to see deeper. All it resembled to me was two eyes and a nose. But I was a preschool teacher so there's that, lol. 

9 minutes ago, Mr.Bill347 said:

I might accept that but the holes , I cannot see external wear causing that. I believe it should be checked out thoroughly. IMO it could be a planchette reject that somehow got into circulation. There dies appear to be some very faint lettering near the bottom.

To whom should I send it to have it checked out? I think it is incredible that that can even be done. 

3 minutes ago, JKK said:

Pretty sure they are made from a special grade of steel these days. It's tough stuff, but dies do wear out eventually, and some fail prematurely. They used to wear out much faster back in the day, and in some cases this is a characteristic of a coin. There's a whole hobby around identifying the die marriages (as in "this one is obverse die R, middle die state, and reverse die 27, late die state") of early large cents, and a whole book (at least one whole book, that is) detailing them all.

For example, I have an 1804 large cent that has a moderate crack through the date. That is specific to a given obverse die, and the pronouncement of the crack is a guide as to the die state. If it's very deep, that might be one of the last pieces struck before the die either failed or was taken out of service prior to failing. Mine's a middle die state, so that obverse die probably made thousands more cents before it left service.

Okay, I am getting it now... I think. I appreciate it! 

19 minutes ago, bsshog40 said:

Doesn't look like a blank planchet to me. Looks like a heavy worn coin. 

And it very well could be. It doesn't have a rim or ridges, of course they could be worn down also. 

54 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

I actually thought it was a very good question.

Well, thank you, sir! 😊

This was inside the bag of coins we found. I am assuming it has something to do with them. Could it be a blank? The spots on it are indentions or tiny holes.

It will only let me upload one photo right now but I will try to upload the other side in a few minutes. It looks exactly like this side, but completely smooth. 

2 minutes ago, RWB said:

The obvious question is "Why raise a rim that doesn't look like the one on a coin?"

The reason is that the US Mint uses die that are slightly convex (higher in the center) rather than flat. When combined with a slightly raised rim on the planchet, this produced better transfer of detail from the die to the planchet during manufacture, and also lengthens die life by spreading the striking pressure more evenly over the die.

(Note: on many older US coins, the blank is too large to fit into the press collar, so any blank that gets mixed with planchets will produce a defective coin.)

Would that be like the mushroom looking ones? 

4 minutes ago, RWB said:

Just a minor adjustment --- Before coins are struck a machine cuts out a circular piece of metal of the correct diameter and thickness for a coin. (This looks a lot like a knock-out from an electrical box.) This is called a "blank."

Once the blank is cut, it goes into a device called an "upsetting machine." Thus rotates and presses the edge of the blank so that it is perfectly circular and free of burrs or anything that might get stuck in the coin press. This process also raises a rounded rim. In the photos below, a blank for a Morgan dollar is on the left and a planchet is on the right.

You know, I actually think I may have a "blank". It was in the bag of coins we found. If I post a picture of it, should I do it in another thread? 

Totally understandable and thanks again for your time and knowledge. 

3 minutes ago, JKK said:

Not a dumb question. A planchet--that is, a coin blank--is just a flat metal disc. I don't think they are either concave or convex, at least for normal strikes. The question comes when the metal is mooshed up into the cavities of the dies, and whether there is enough force to achieve a full impression. Depending on the juxtapositioning of devices on both sides, one side or both may be very difficult to strike up completely. It also depends on the metal; for example, nickel is a serious *person_of_uncertain_parentage* to strike up, as the stuff is so hard.

Okay. Well, what type of metal are the dies made from to withstand such pressure? It seems like they would break so easily. Would it not be more efficient to heat the planchet just enough to make it easier to make an impression?

I promise I'll be done with questions after this, lol. Thank you for your time🙂

On 2/19/2021 at 9:49 AM, Ray, USMC said:

Well said and never give up the quest.

Oh, I am definitely not the quitter. 😂 In some situations, that is a good thing;in others, not so good, lol. Thank you for the encouragement. ☺️

That sounds like something I would do. Thanks for the idea. 

This may sound like a dumb question, but for my mind to grasp it all I need to really understand why and how... Wouldn't that depend a lot on how level the metal was? If it was convex or concave when pushed upward into the die? 

Are they any definite indications as to a weakly struck coin? When inquiring about that 192? dollar earlier, @JKKyou mentioned to look at the rims. Could that always be an indication of the strike? Or only on specific coins? 

Yes, sir, I do. I am gonna really have to train my eyes to look deeper. Thank you 😊

14 minutes ago, Lancek said:

Yours is a scratch, simple damage to the coin post mint.  The other coins looks to have a die crack.  Slight cracking of the die when the coin was produced.  If you could see that coin in hand, you would likely see that "crack" is probably raised up from the surface.  Vs. damage, which us usually incused into the coin.

Thank you 😊

Hey, y'all! I hope y'all are enjoying your day. I have a question about this dollar. I looked it up and the picture I saw, which I am attaching, has a scratch or something through the tipof the right wing between Of and AMERICA. I circled it for you. I took a picture of the one that I have and it appears to have the same thing on it, which I also circled for you. I didn't see anything about it anywhere though. I am curious about it although I don't really know what questions to ask 🤦🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

@Just BobI think Mr. Burdette, excuse me,  Mr. Roger, is talking to you. LOL

Well I may be wrong, but, as a fellow Mississippian, I think @Just Bob probably said Mr. Burdette out of sheer habit (and, of course, utmost respect). I say sir, ma'am, Mr, Ms, to EVERYONE. Younger and older.

1. It just sounds better. 

2. My momma would have gotten me good if I hadn't, (and still would) ... so it is a habit. 

3. I will get mine good if they don't, so I make sure to keep it a habit so they will. 

4. The lessons taught were that it ain't gonna hurt you to say it whether they are younger or older, but if you don't say it and should've then you are gonna get hurt for sure! Do it is best just to say it. 

And that, folks, is our Sweet Southern Tea lesson for today. 😭

I am learning that more and more. I am going to order the two books he suggested and try to make sure what I am readi g is a reliable source. For sure! 

I am just gonna order them tomorrow. I actually just pulled the first one up on ebay to order and when my PayPal account acct popped up ii remembered that I couldn't get to the a k today to get a new debit card. Someone phished through Netflix and hit my other number. So much hassle to have to deal with! 😬

Well, if those books cost that much I'll surely be using the library. Our local library, though still frozen, hasn't been open since covid began. I am bit really sure if they are gonna reopen. So sad. Although computers are great, I love books. 

2 minutes ago, RWB said:

Both books include modern, factual research, and have won numerous awards. I let the data tell the story. You can borrow both books through your local, thawed-out, local library under standard "interlibrary loan" (ILL). Typical loan cost is $1 or $2.

As to the source of the false statement, any organization that publishes such obvious bunk is unlikely to offer anything trustworthy.

I wish there was a love emoji because you made me literally LOL at your library statement. I think I am just gonna see if they are on Amazon so I can keep them for as long as I want to.