FlyingAl

Thanks guys!

A finalized and reviewed version of my research is slated to appear as the cover story in November's issue of The Numismatist. I think a few members here will enjoy the read. 

I'm working on a research project, and it involves 1936-1942 Cameo Proofs specifically. Specifically, I'm looking to expand the images of these coins in a die catalog. My work on this has been in progress for some time, but I'm trying to get images of as many of these as possible.

Here's what I'm asking for - I need owners of these coins to send them to me for imaging. I will be prepared to offer my photographic services for free, and a little bonus for their efforts. I am prepared to offer images of the Cameo Proof and five other coins in addition to that coin for free. The images will be obverse and reverse and whatever other shots I take and edit. My standard image rules will apply, and I will of course need to use the images for my research. PCGS/NGC graded CAMs are preferred. If you have a near-CAM coin, feel free to reach out too.

The only caveat is this - the owner of the coin will pay shipping due to how costs vary based on the desires of each member. I will, however, offer a stipend in the form of images of three extra coins ($30 in trade). If this is not enough, please reach out and we can see what we can work out. My goal is to make this as beneficial to those who are willing to help as possible, but I realistically don't have the ability to shell out hundreds of dollars in shipping fees, so I need to use my services as a sort of trade.

Feel free to PM if you any questions. Lurkers can reach out to flyingalphoto@gmail.com if they'd like to inquire.

Thanks!

On 2/15/2024 at 7:53 AM, Just Bob said:

I see the answers to some of the questions have been changed. I will not belabor the points here, but will just wait for the finished article. Should be really interesting.

Yes. I don't want my replies here to affect how people will receive the finished article. None of the previous or now edited posts really put that in jeopardy, but these posts have much less context than the full article, and could be misinterpreted. 

On 2/10/2024 at 6:16 PM, Sandon said:

   Were the dies then used to strike coins for circulation, which could result in hundreds of thousands of regular pieces having the same die markers?

This was not confirmed, but it is possible, though unlikely.

On 2/10/2024 at 5:38 PM, Sandon said:

   As it so happens, I had just posted a response to a member who purported to have a so-called 1964 "SMS" half dollar based on "die markers".   See https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/432733-1964-sms-kennedy-half-dollar.  We have to deal with such claims with some frequency. 

   I hope that your research will resolve once and for all where these coins came from so that we can definitively answer the question whether it is possible that more of them may be found "in the wild". A definitive description of their characteristics would also be helpful.

 

The characteristics are all the same - struck once on a toggle press from fresh dies and handled individually. They will all share the same die markers, which doesn't stop those who have dreams of striking it rich from imagining the die markers on their coins. 

On 2/10/2024 at 5:27 PM, J P M said:

Ok from my understanding the SMS coins were not even thought of until 1966. When the mint got tired of listening to the collectors complaining about no proofs being struck. And the only years were 1965,66 and 67 anything in 1964 would have been a Special Strike not a Special Mint Set. Is that a good start, FlyingAL 

Even special strike would be a stretch. The name as it stands at "SMS" will probably never change, even though the coins bear no resemblance to such coins. 

Fire away!

A few drafts have been in the works, but I want to be sure the final draft answers all the questions out there.

As Roger notes, there are other tells to show these coins are Proofs, but they're all fairly difficult to see in images. One such marker we noted in discussions was an oval depression near the base of the third ray on the obverse, and the rim to edge junction. 

On 1/16/2024 at 7:50 AM, Just Bob said:

You have a good eye, young man!

Congrats on your score in the grading contest, too. 

Thank you!

On 1/15/2024 at 8:38 PM, Just Bob said:

What were the die markers that convinced you that yours was indeed a proof?

Surfaces, strike, rims, sheen, edges, VAM 1H. 

For these, that's about as good as you can get. 

There should be 10 images of two Peace dollars. 

Disagree.

However, I think the statement could be like this: "In order to maximize the potential value of your coin, you should get it professionally graded."

On 11/1/2023 at 6:03 PM, VKurtB said:

The lighting prevents me from seeing what I would want to in order to see a matte proof, but what I CAN SEE is some really nice inner rims that dive almost vertically down into the fields. I do think Flying Al might be drinking to excess if he thinks it’s a 58. There is no wear, only the typical slight weakness on the large O in ONE, which is because it is opposite the high point on Lincoln’s shoulder. For those with less experience, look at these O’s. This is the reason they’re less than sharp.

Kurt, there is a slight color change on the beard and cheekbone, highly indicative of wear. Again, angles will make this one appear far better than it is. Regardless, there is no chance at all it's a 68. 

On 11/1/2023 at 4:52 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

This coin has NO circulation wear present at ALL.. the bow tie obv is as struck and the wheat stalks rev are perfect. Disagree with your assessment.

Excellent, please feel free to. I wonder if you hadn't gotten so lucky and won the coin, and then sent it in, and then received a grade of AU58, what you would have done?

Disagreed with the TPG?

This thread is ridiculous. I sure hope Kurt is joking. 
 

The coin would likely grade out at AU58RB due to the wear on the obverse. The PCGS Price Guide does not list values for AU58s, as they are effecting worthless beyond a few dollars.