Henri Charriere

Some 3-1/2 years later, and your observation is as valid as ever. The number of Set Registrants of F20F GRs here has shot up to 80; on the West Coast the present number here is 13. If you were to review their holdings, by my estimate, 83% continue to remain dormant. NGC has erected a glass wall at the demarcation line between MS-66 and MS-67 and not a few at MS-67+ pieces have been graded. PCGS' wall is impregnable. Only a dozen or less for all "restrike" dates. The pickings in the U.S., particularly of the older "Originals" are, as always, slim. The pickings in France and Germany are a lot better, but certifications by sellers of all the major TPGS, have largely been abandoned. My only option, mired as I am in the French graders' FDC, "Fleurs de Coin" which embraces every Mint State coin from MS-65 to MS-70, is to continue waiting like everyone else or take a chance, purchase an FDC (relying on photos and faith, ald little else) and submit it here for cross-grading. Your average collector is wary of overseas buying and navigating all the different languages and grading systems in use. Incidentally, as initially pointed out in my opening post, as regarding the Originals, which comprise half the 16-coin series, 1899-1906, to date, no 20-franc rooster appears to have been graded MS-67. By anyone. I continue to appreciate your running commentary!

I have taken the liberty of reaching out to a member, MF, whose intermittent presence on the various forums goes back almost 20 years, explained the situation here hoping he would simply volunteer his first impression, got a fairly quick professional response stating his forte was U.S. coins, exclusively. I was hoping for nothing more than a second opinion from a gentleman who's seen his share of coinage, but it was not to be. As a fellow member with no axe to grind, I have run out of options. However, I remain optimistic and wish you the best of luck! I still have a good feeling about that coin.

With RWB yet to respond, I would like to advance another interpretation of his comment, "These are not legitimate "trial pieces" as understood by American collectors." I believe he was merely emphasizing the fact that these were formal, ceremonial "Trial" [capital T] pieces, as opposed to garden-variety, "trial" [lower- case] pieces -- "as understood by American collectors." Whether I am right or wrong, in view of his lifetime achievement awards, not to mention, exalted status as Grand Master as well as time spent in the NARA trenches for the enlightenment of hobbyists, I am going to waive my usual consultant's fee. There will be no bill in the mail for you, Roger!

Troo dat! I love running on-site commentary!

RWB's operative words were: "... as understood by American collectors." I do not have the requisite knowledge, anecdotal evidence, or experience in hand to say one way or the other, but intentionally spreading misinformation? We ought to use an assertion of "ABSOLUTE LIE," sparingly. Didn't "Hillary" concede she simply "misspoke"? I myself am not averse to admitting I was mistaken. IMHO.

... highly irregular... where's the Original?... wouldn't it have been easier to simply HIDE the superfluous content via the three dots on the upper right of your cell?...all the best!...

Let's think about that for a moment. My authenticated, certified, encapsulated coin bearing an "adjectivel" grade, must now be resubmitted, at my expense to get a numbered grade. Nice. A few years down the road when I have lost my mind completely, I am going to cite this thread and others in support of my application for NGI, i.e., Not Guilty due to Insanity. I thank the Moai of Easter Island for giving me the strength to see at least one of my Registry Sets through to completion.

See NGC's Home Page, click on MENU, click on NEWS. Find the article posted on 7/7/23 entitled: "New Sixth Edition of the CherryPickers' Guide to Rare Die Varieties of U.S. Coins," [which was slated to be released on Aug. 1, 2023 and make its debut at the ANA World's Fair of Money in Pittsburgh, PA., August 8-12, 2023].. Check Whitman.com for more info. It seems every book outlet ought to have been selling copies by now at every price range. You may have to check around to determine availability. Note: When reminding a member of a request for a PM, always include a point of reference such as this thread, date and the book of interest. Please understand, I set aside a few moments out of my busy schedule managing earthquakes, landslides, hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, global conflicts, the continued calving of Antarctica's Larsen Ice Shelf -- and monitoring newbies posting coins for sale on the wrong forum, to bring this information to you. 🤣 Edit: Thank you, Sandon.

True. Some are retired, have moved on, and drop in from time to time to share their experiences and knowledge. We've had a few surprise guests over the years.

Thank you Sandon. I have been aware of adjectival grading for some time as many of the coins posted on this Forum's various copper, silver and gold threads are exhibited there regularly. I do not believe I have ever seen a gold rooster with "graded" as such because I was apparently unable to develop an immune system strong enough to effectively resist "set registritus syndrome" (SRS). My realm, focused on the French FDC range [from MS65 to MS-70].is my sole area of interest. If any F20F/GRs are certified below MS-60, I personally have never seen one and my theory as to why they exist at all I attribute to starry-eyed submitters for whom hope springs eternal. The equivalent of UNCIRCULATED on the FDC grade level is increasingly being listed as MS65 to MS-70. Incidentally, these so-called UNCS, are being sold at little more than spot, or $400+.

The distinctions that matter most occur in the Mint State range and the Set Registry makes no accommodation for speculation on these lofty grades. You've either got a slot-eligible, specific grade, or you don't. It wouldn't matter how much definition is provided in pics.

How can you presume that.when directly above your comment is an NGC graphic that indicates the "Total graded by NGC, in 60, was zero."?

Just when I thought I had seen it all, something I know not what to make of lands in my In-box... a seller's lising for a 1910 French 20-franc gold rooster I happen to be in desperate need of... with a cruel twist. Certified and encapsulated by NGC, the label reads: 1910 France G20F UNCIRCULATED 6564166-021 Is this someone's idea of a joke? And where exactly is this certified coin supposed to be placed on one's Sheldonized Set Registry? Something is afoot here and I am raising the hue and cry! For some time now, I have sounded the alarm that recent offerings made by coin dealers in Europe have virtually abandoned formal certifications by shifting that cost to buyers. RAW CITY. But never in my wildest dreams would I have thought my mere suspicions would be confirmed. Unless someone can come up with a credible explanation for this sea change in formal grading, I am going to suggest this does not bode well for set registrants. Grade? Uncirculated! And it's not even April Fool's day!

You've described me to a T. Identical experience. By dint of sheer luck, I assembled and completed a collection. In the beginning, I bought raw, vowed I would never have anything to do with slabs, but made the transition when I signed up as a member -- and then discovered the Set Registry. The only difference is I stuck to slabs and buying from reputable, long-established businesses. I do not know if I could have done what you did. I took calculated risks. We need more input on this topic. What I would like to know is, short of submission, is there another unexplored option here that ought to be pursued? We need opinions from experienced professionals, graders, former graders, etc. who can put themselves in your shoes and suggest another course of action.

Almost there... "that's the signpost up ahead -- your next stop, the Twilight Zone!" To submit, or not to submit. That is the question. You are concerned about throwing more good money after possibly bad. Plenty of folks have gone through the experience. The thrill of victory vs the agony of defeat. While we await more opinions, I would be very curious to know what it was about this coin that prompted you to commit yourself to its purchase, uncertified, at that cost, from an overseas location?

In my mind's eye, you are in Germany for the sole purpose of determining why the streets in Mannheim are lettered and numbered, and not named. You are in your element, no question about it. 🤣

🐓: Is this Q.A. character even still around? H.C.: Merely unconfirmed rumor that cycles in and out from time to time. By the way, it has been proven with a measurable degree of scientific certainty that the inadvertent posting of coins for sale on this Forum would cause the Earth to wobble on its axis and throw its revolutionary trajectory around the sun off by a cataclysmic 3.7%. 🤣 To the OP: I look forward to reviewing the delectable morsels featured in your various auction lots at the earliest opportunity.

Be nice. The distinguished member is not posting any coins for "sale." He is merely alerting the congregation to an upcoming series of "auctions" featuring a lifetime's worth of collecting and studying coins in his specific areas of interest.

Actually, the worst thing for you to do is absolutely nothing and never knowing whether the coin was real or not for the rest of your entire life. 🤔

I hope you get Top Dollar for each and every one of your lots. A lifetime of dedicated research and sacrifice deserves a fitting end and recompense. The culmination of efforts devoted to a specialized branch of numismatics is likely what the late, great Oldhoopster may have had in mind when he spoke glowingly of those who contribute to "the body of knowledge" and share it freely with others. Well done. Very well done!

After reviewing their website, it appears they specialize in Gold, U.S. coinage. It would be helpful to post specifics on specs you have come to learn about. Authenticity is one key encouraging development. Soldier on!

Dueling opinions, eh? Well, I think PCGS is a stricter grader. So there! What would NGC say? Probably wear and tear noted on the hair aggravated by a washed-out look that is suggestive of exposure to diluted bleach. But then, what do I know?

To be fair about it, I see some things of concern, but so has RWB, and I can vouch for the fact that the excitability factor your coin has elicited from him is noteworthy -- and he owns one and if he had seen anything untoward, you, me, and everybody else lurking about would know about it. The deal-makers for me are intricate craftsmanship down to the sharply incused W.W. which, depending on how much of a problem counterfeiting was, would not be as noticeable as a V.D.B. cent. And I don't mean on a 1909. That was prominent enough to authorize a re-design. I am talking about the majority of cents which bear, with a few exceptions, the designer's initials on Lincoln's shoulder. It's not something one would ordinarily notice kind of like the rather inconspicuous micro-printed FW on U.S. currency printed by the BEP's facility at Fort Worth, Texas. I believe your average person is unaware that not all paper money is printed in W, D.C. As regarding your lovely coin, I'm going to be "all-in" like Jeopardy's James Holzhauer!

The other one is rather odd... Pater Patria (which is more commonly spelled with an e, Patriae) means "Father of the Fatherland," and the date, to me, has no meaning: April 30, 1839. Both feature the Roman fasces and are which will be familiar to collectors of the Winged Liberty dime. Looking at the top left, under Pater is the partial date: 1750; on the top right under Patriae is the remainder of the date: 39, which together reads 1789. I would guess this is a 50th anniversary commemorative medal. I would be curious to know if there is any inscription along the medal's circumferential edge. The top one has a bronze look to it; the bottom, silvery. Very nice presentation pieces which were clearly preserved with care.