Henri Charriere

20 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

That's because the premium tends to be sticky to both the upside AND downside.  If it rises and then stabilizes at the higher level (admittedly, it doesn't happen too often) the premium will expand with gold flat.

I believe in a few years folks will post here bragging that they bought an MS65 Saint common year for under $3,000 !!  

I don't think I will be doing that but I can state with [shameful] confidence that every raw MS French rooster I bought only last year at a ridiculously low price, has risen way, way past melt value (a term I dislike intensely) as have your beloved double eagles -- and while I may consider selling them, I am not going to disperse my Set Registry compilation -- no matter how high gold goes, even if it surpasses the value of RichieRich2020s newfound treasure, and irrespective as to how VKurtB feels about them. What I may do is send them all back to France for placement in a museum if they're interested.  I was never in it for the money; I was in it for the hunt.  Note: any views as expressed herein above are valid for 37 hours.

6 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Simple solution:  buy SLV the ETF as a hedge to lock in the price.  Same thing with GLD or IAU if you can't buy gold coins or bars for some reason.

Easy for you to say. I may have had to give up my rotary phone but I still have my old (yes, manual) typewriter.  I don't know why, but an old dinosaur like me cannot fathom the pleasure a whippersnapper may derive from abstractions like pixelated numbers and letters on a screen. While I may envy VKurtBs giant ME, I am stubbornly old-fashioned. How can an electronic trade compare to the thrill I got redeeming my old silver certificates for a bag of silver at an assay office on Wall Street? You understand.

I don't think the Judge is going to allow me to cross-examine the witness at this late juncture what with argumentation well on its way, but I would nevertheless be curious to know why a former grader, sharing recollections as to the way things were done during the last millennium, sat there quietly, with nary a peep, as various commentators, some presumably experts in their respective fields, regaled the rest of us with tales of roguish rascality including, but not limited to, cracking out coins, questionable re-submissions and errors brought about by purposeful defacement with chemicals one of which is banned in California and from export as a Listed II precursor to at least one South American country? No further questions.

4 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

Of those on the list I went with feel... The Peace Dollar had the best Feel to it..

 

Topographically speaking, with subdued relief, I can see that. But codgers like me who've had "hold by the edges" pounded into our heads over the years, your reference to "feel" makes me cringe. I only recently heard (hope VKurtB doesn't see this) that the TPGS conduct their examinations with bare hands and not paper gloves as I had assumed. 

12 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

I wasn’t grading in an assembly line - it was nothing like that. Back in those days, we weren’t even grading moderns, yet. I also spent close to half my time in quality control checks of the coins, grades and information on the grading labels, after the coins were encapsulated.

I apologize for my hasty conclusion, and do so politely.

A woman at a TPGS (ah, what the hell: PCGS) felt obligated to describe the ENTIRE process involved in their hermetically sealed room which left me with the impression that all those cryptic notations left all over my encapsulations, as well as the black coffin in which they were entombed, were the product of a series of internal checks and balances (circa, 2020, the present). Have things changed? Have turn-arounds grown? With the explosion in ERs and FSs and all manner of labels, I would imagine so.  We are rapidly approaching a time when the numismatic collector series of coins will likely come with a certified chronometer reading: No. 9 off the press. And those higher numbers will command an incrementally lower premium than their older-by-minutes hatchlings.

1 hour ago, MarkFeld said:

Like it or not, when I graded at NGC from 1991-1998, I very rarely used magnification stronger than 5-10 power.

You were grading on an assembly line. I am conducting autopsies. Like that all-seeing eye on The Great Seal of the one-dollar bill, nothing escapes my gaze. 

On 8/5/2020 at 1:40 PM, Coinbuf said:

I just want to know when Quintus is going to propose to Richie, its a beautiful bromance.

On another site that routinely, liberally, and some might say, unjustifiably "collapsed," i.e., censored contributors' remarks -- Be Nice, Be Respectful, was their constant refrain -- I would very often refer to their "Moderation Committee" as the "Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue" squad, a real-life entity not unlike the clerics in Kabul who carried little whips to enforce religious edicts like not cutting off your beard (men) or exposing too much face or ankle (women). If I wanted something more rambunctious than simple courtesy and respect, I could always tune in to Jerry Springer. There have been some eloquent orators who have more than made up for the wild cowboys on this thread, now a respectable 200 post, seven page, thread, long enough to be woven into a garment. Great stuff!

I wonder where my esteemed colleague, VKurtB, stands on this.  It was he who, utilizing his Toolbar for added emphasis, lambasted my use of a 30-power loupe (in lieu of a five-or ten-power hand-held lens) as NEVER done. And here we have (the rather aptly named) INSIDER casually confiding that no less than a "stereo microscope" was employed routinely for grading.  This is arguably the most interesting and informative recitation I have come across since I stumbled into this chat room. (I am not even going to ask who Old Crack Eye was.) Thank you so much for sharing your memoirs!

I cannot help but feel our learned colleague, VKurtB, is an outlier, erudite and confident enough to consult historical sources at will, and quote them freely with such well-lubricated ease that one may attempt to engage him only at one's peril. I, for one, am both impressed and intimidated. This thread lost me by going off on a tangent with mines. Next thing I know, someone will sweep us along on a spelunking safari. Onlookers to the fray fervently pray Zink Zonk under contract with NGC (at least in my mind) will exterminate the nuisance pestilence this strain of thread has devolved into, but rest assured, we haven't lost a single (allegedly) disinterested party who regularly monitor the site quietly, without comment. Poor RichieRich2020, he never got the validation he sought and matte whatevers are not my area of expertise.

8 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Warning, unlike todays proof sets, that set was NOT designed to be opened and reclosed.  Opening it will most likely destroy the holder so be ready to put all the coins in new protective holders.

Good point.  I have never done so and, quite frankly, never tampered with the flimsy stapled together specimens, pre protective holders (circa 1950s) but then, the gentleman wishes to photograph his coin(s) preparatory to sale. That's his prerogative, I guess.

On 8/2/2020 at 8:40 AM, Moxie15 said:

Opinions, opinions, we rely on others opinions so much. Grading is an opinion we all know that. So whose opinion do you trust? 

Everyone here has seen coins in both company's holders that we disagreed with the grade. Both companies have graded counterfeits as genuine, both companies have graded genuine coins as counterfeits, so what to do?

I would start with a phone call to the first company to see if they would agree to a no cost second look. If they do not I would call the other to see if they would do the same. If not I would look to a third company or an industry accepted expert in the series. Is it moral to do nothing or sell them as is? I would say yes. The holder is the guaranty from the company, Is it immoral to sell a coin that NGC or PCGS graded MS 67  that you think is no more than MS65? 

Grades are opinions of a certain grader or graders of a certain company at a certain time, so is the authenticity, nothing more. 

I am not comfortable with the definition of opinion as used here. Wasn't this analogized with a certain unmentionable part of the human anatomy, followed by the phrase Everyone's got one? An opinion is what the weather's going to be like tomorrow which carries no value. On this very site a collector was mocked for rejecting the experienced assessment of a professional, highly-respected grader (Fred Weinberg?) who gets paid a fee to appraise a coin which may be pivotal to presenting it at an auction. An opinion is who's going to be the next Kentucky Derby winner to win the Triple Crown at Belmont backed by spurious claims and selective statistics. The only exceptions are opinions which are handed down by the various federal courts the majority of whom wouldn't be caught dead expounding upon their reasoning in a gossip column or as a guest on the talk show circuit.

1 hour ago, Lancek said:

Not entirely true.  From NGC's website.  "or they may be submitted in their holders if they are accompanied by NGC's Consent to Remove Coin(s) from Holder(s) Form."

Obviously, I stand corrected.

This dialogue reminds me of that scene in the restaurant where Joe Pesci grabs that waiter by the tie, and says "You embarrass me in front of my friends, and you don't think you're being out of order?" (Goodfellas, 1990) The simple unvarnished truth is I was at home recovering from major surgery -- and had been warned not to make any important decisions (under the influence of painkillers, oxycodone) was surfing the internet when, out of curiosity, I decided to see how coins I had purchased 50 years ago had held up in the interim... one thing led to another, and all of the sudden, a lovely little gold rooster caught my eye, and I made up my mind, then and there, she was to be mine, no matter how high the bidding went. I kept my promise, and then suddenly encountered another, another, and then an encapsulated one! I bought, I believe three, and only then discovered there were only 16 in the entire series. Every rooster I encountered was a challenge and I took every bid as a personal affront. I waited until three minutes to post time, bid furiously, and that's alI I remember.  Many of the earlier ones resided in France, Germany -- even Serbia. I didn't buy these roosters, I paid a ransom to obtain their freedom. So, as far as I am concerned this was not the actions of a sane man. One day every slot was filled and then the upgrades began. Truth be told, VKurtB -- and you will never hear this from another collector, I was purchasing upgrades BEFORE I received the lower grades! Would you buy a coin before receiving the first of that date which was still in transit from an overseas location?  One time my shipment, a real doozy comprised of three upper echelon grades, sent via FedEx, was seized by Customs which issued something akin to an Interpol Red Notice demanding action on my part within five days. Did I submit to their unseemly interrogation which included divulging my full name, DOB and Social Security number over the wire? What would you do if at the slightest hint of resistance they informed you the shipment was being returned? I didn't like it, but I submitted -- even as the questioning took a personal intrusive turn. So, yes, my friend, I plead guilty with an explanation. Now, you embarrass me in front of all my friends and you don't think you're out of order? Set registry? I am guessing I had most of the pieces prior to discovering there was a set registry and recorded their arrival en masse in the order of their arrival. Thank you for honoring me with your query. If it had come from the likes of Ratzie33 or RichieRich2020 I would have been gobsmacked like Gleason in the Honeymooners: "HAMADAHAMADAHAMADA!" 

43 minutes ago, Modwriter said:

Former Democratic Presidential candidate Andrew Yang has suggested eliminating the penny and nickel.

He must have offended the penny people, greatly.

13 minutes ago, kbbpll said:

Conversely, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a current year P coin in change where I live, 60 miles from Denver mint. 

Hmm, on more than a few occasions, I have gotten crisp EPQ Federal Reserve banknotes seemingly straight off the press in Ft. Worth, destined for districts out west, like L Sacramento, in B New York. On only one occasion do I recall picking up a roll of coins from the Dahlonega or New Orleans mints. 😀😉

15 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Eh, it happens. Try some Prevagen.

I am ashamed to say the thought has crossed my mind. After all, non-drinkers do not sit around agonizing over whether they may be alcoholics.

5 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

I can answer that question  - because the opinions matter/count if they are what he wishes to hear, but otherwise, not.

Psychopathologically speaking, we are all complicit in this now seven-page phenomenon. 

8 minutes ago, Morpheus1967 said:

why did you even solicit opinions here in the first place?  

The gentleman, an independent researcher, simply seeks validation from as many disparate sources that care to respond.

I must be getting senile in my old age. 

[Pardon my intrusion, but the Federal Reserve isn't a shot-caller. Congress is the one voting on appropriations and without funding from Congress, neither the Federal Reserve or the Mint can act unilaterally. (If I am wrong, someone will undoubtedly avail himself of the unprecedented opportunity to eviscerate me.)

"When will this hobby, or what little remains of it, decide that basic truth and honesty...."

Stinging words that resound in my head as I mourn the unconscionably premature passing of a hobby, once dominated by coin collectors and coin shops, now almost the exclusive domain/province of investors, auction houses and TPGS. Remember when the hobby managed perfectly well with just Poor, Fair, Good, Very Good, Fine, VF, EF, and UNC, and Proof grades? Some fifty years, if memory serves. But UNC just wasn't good enough. "Almost" UNC crept in. Then UNC itself was split into Choice, Gem and Brilliant strains. That, too, proved insufficient. The earthshaking Richter, pardon me, Sheldon Scale, was introduced and with it ten, count 'em, TEN! gradations for UNC alone, now rechristened, whoa Nelly: "Mint State."  Proof was proof, period. But Proof -- not a grade, but a unique process -- was not immune to dissection. Hence "Proof-like," which, to quote Shakespeare again, is nothing more than "wagging thy tongue in noise so rude against me," i.e., an artificial construct and an abomination, pure and simple. (Even "Business Strike" doesn't sit well with me, truth be told.)  To all who have been forced to weather my obscenely long, often rude, crude and vulgar rants, my apologies, but RWBs eloquent words -- "When will this hobby" -- have struck a raw nerve within me. We need to get back to basics and keep things in perspective or the commodities brokers running amok among us will destroy every vestige of decency and integrity this pursuit, quaintly known as coin collecting or numismatics, once enjoyed. Peace out.

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

I've been too active lately in auctions. I'm one token over the line. (Sweet Jesus.)

Lucky you.

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

This OP is hopeless, and, and, and pointless and worthless too.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. As my, er, uh, sister once said (paraphrasing slightly) there is nothing wrong with the OP.  He is what he represents himself to be and how we choose to perceive him. The real problem is US, the collector community, which repeatedly engages a subject that quite evidently is unwilling or unable to yield to mob pressure. After all, with the touch of a thumb or click of a mouse, the problem takes care of itself very nicely. The only spectators who come out ahead are Alex B or Mr. Hinkle who tune in strictly for the entertainment value. 

35 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Yes, NGC. only accepts actual in-slab crossovers from PCGS. People who send in any other service are in effect submitting raw coins. When I send an ICG coin to NGC, I do crack it out, but I sometimes keep it in the readily identifiable ICG translucent insert. That way they know they’re likely reviewing an ICG coin.

There is a part of me that says, "I object! Leading the witness." Here's why... back when I was a clerk for a Diamond District emporium they would send me, with a diamond ring to be appraised --  only the ring would have attached to it a distinctive colored band and inventory number identifying it as, wink! wink!,

On 8/2/2020 at 3:09 PM, VKurtB said:

 

so-and-so jewelers. In Trump-speak: Unfair!  If you want a completely unbiased opinion, why would you do that? Even your rank amateur, ME!, wouldn't do that. 

What prompted you to soak it in olive oil?  Oh, I get it now.  Olive Street, St. Louis.  (Lemme find out VKurtB is not the only mad scientist cooking up concoctions!)