Franz Joseph

This set would be nice to have: 1 Thaler, Charles VI, 1711-1740, Circulation Issue - 6642141-004 - 5789890-102 Thank you!

I will probably send more than just this one coin to PCGS...Every second coin has a wrong description or wrong picture...Definetly poor service in all aspects!

You all ignore the facts! It does not matter the alloy or minting process- it should be the same as for copper or bronze coins which are stupidly designated based on current colour which will change in years to make a coin in a slab wrongly designated in a few years! When the small amount of coins is in different colour it is not the same colour! Especialy gold coin will never change this colour as we can see they are the same since 1882! If you ignore the colour you are no longer a numismatist,or grader or collector ! Why is there no colour designation for silver coins? They also change colour due to environmental process? You all understand the logic behind grading copper and bronze coins but not for the silver and gold? And please no more about varietes.We already agreed what is a variety. Now is time to make a NGC service for numismatist and not for quick money maker with unprofessional graders! Collectors handbook of Italian coins MONTENEGRO which is published yearly and it is supreme reference book for Italian coins also includes 20 lire in red gold as independent( oro rosso-red gold) coin-if this is a variety or not is not the issue but NGC should designate the colour of this rare coins! And No it is not a mistake in catalogue!

This is a nice example of variety - Verify NGC Certification | NGC (ngccoin.com)

As you can see PCGS can grade and distinguish red from the other colours! So PCGS not competent for grading ?Also- Standard Catalog of World Coins - 2001–Date, 14th Edition, publication date 2019, Krause Publications is not competent book? PLEASE!!!!

The coin has been listed in NGC competitive set until this discussion ! This coin is a variety as much as a different year in the coin.Perhaps all coins should be graded a s 20 Lire because during some process they can not be sure which year they are??? Stupid analogy I beleive!

So we have the same colour issue as from the bronze coins- but they are distinguished as red to brown by the NGC!!! It does not matter which alloy is but only the colour of the coin. If you have coins officialy minted and cataloged in 2 colours than NGC should grade those as such! MUST GRADE! It is not possible to alter the colour during the minting process or heating or... It is the alloy which determines the colour( speaking only for gold!!!) When the coins are encapsulated all the details are gone -colour(if coins are in 2 colours),edge lettering... You have a coin which you have to remove from the holder to see the details!!! This is a big NGC fault! And they do not want to recognize it!

If you are a dog than this could be usefull - What does a dogs vision look like? Dogs can see color, but only in shades of blue and yellow. Because dogs can only see two colors, they have dichromatic vision. They can also see shades of gray. Colors such as red, orange, and green are out of a dog's color spectrum, so these colors are not visible to dogs.

I can point red colour where it is. Every day,every night. Some people obviesly can not.

I hope you people distinguish between red and green when driving! Once again -red is red and yellow is yellow or there is no colour at all? Perhaps this can help to someone- Colours | LearnEnglish Kids (britishcouncil.org)

Normal person see red as red and yellow as yellow ! Otherwise there is something wrong with your eyes! If the coin is in all catalogues described as red and given a special reference number than is probably red as red is! NGC as a company working for numismatist should be able to grade every legit coin! Especially those listed in worldwide recognized catalogues such as KM !

I called it fake with a ? not ! I want an answer that is all!

Interesting fact is that copper,brass and other composition coins can be distinguished between 3 colors,RED,BROWN AND REDBROWN( R,BR,RB). This is contrary to their explanation that no longer attribute coins based on color !?

During this conversation this coin has been removed from the NGC registry( competitive sets) with no explanation! Hello, @Franz Joseph. We have removed the registry slot. All grading questions need to go to service@NGCcoin.com. Thank you.

They do not want to tell me the reason. I asked them for the explanation but did not get one. In my opininon if the grader can not distinguish between the colours grading this kind of coins is a night mare.

As you can see from the pictures left coin is red. PCGS grades this coins with no problem!

There is yellow gold with 10% Silver and 90% gold and red gold with 10% cooper and 90 % gold. There is nothing between- only these two colours exist. That is why you have in KM#21 regular yellow gold and KM#21a red gold.

Can please anybody explain why 20Lire 1882 RED GOLD-KM #21a is not eligible for grading in NGC?

So after 6 month you received a partial refund?

Can somebody from the NGC please explain why the 20 Lire 1882 RED GOLD listed in KM#21a will not be graded? If this is a serious company than an anser is expected! !!!!!!!

So-RED GOLD 20 Lire 1882 is not a coin? Obviesly we are sending coins to blind graders?

I submitted 20 Lire 1882 RED gold for grading.This coins is listed in KM catalogue under number KM #21a. But know this coin can not be graded for unknown,secret,unexplained reason,probably because the grader can not distinguish between the colours??? Will this slot be removed from NGC registry ? Coin is- 2909640-001 This is the answer from customer service : The information that I shared with you came from our Senior Grader for World Coins. We will not differentiate between gold colors for these coins. We are not able to overturn what our Senior Grader says. Again, we apologize that we are not able to accommodate your request. Thank you, Allison C. Customer Service Certified Collectibles Group p. (855) Grade10 | (855) 472-3310 collectiblesgroup.com

I submitted a 20L RED GOLD coin for grading .Despite many notes on all documents that the coin is red gold the grader removed red gold! This coin(20 Lire 1882 RED GOLD) is listed in KM under Nr:21a Based on my 30+ years of experience the coin is RED GOLD 100%. I got the answer from NGC -Thank you for your patience. The team let me know that we do not differentiate between gold colors for these coins or other European issues. We have unfortunately, have not done this for some time. We apologize that we are not able to accommodate your request. This 20 Lire 1882 RED GOLD is listed in all catalogues but graders can not differentiate this? Regular 20L1882 is KM#21 RED GOLD 20L 1882 IS KM#21a

Did you get a refund?

Yes I have to agree that the customer service is very poor and not qualified to answer most of the questions asked!