RAJ on COINS

I am so sorry to hear of David's passing.  I met him doing a cool coins segment a few years back and since found many of his videos on the Newman Portal.  I corresponded with him occasionally since and he was among my inspirations to do a couple of seminars on Saint Gaudens Double Eagle Varieties.  He was alway a gentleman, always helpful, funny, and seemingly everywhere in the numismatic firmament. He will be greatly missed.

On 2/3/2022 at 3:34 PM, RWB said:

The only "conflict" is when I look in the mirror in the morning and wonder who that old fart is looking back.

Yes.  I have that problem too!

Just a note... there were also quite a few highly graded 1908's from the "Wells Fargo Hoard" ... 

How many (properly graded) MS 67 Saints can there be?  Not that many I imagine.  I would expect a type collector who is only going to buy one "with motto" Saint, and is condition conscious, is likely to be willing to pay a high price.  Saints are very baggy in general, so nice ones with no distracting gashes on liberty's shin or flatness in the face seem hard to come by... even in 65.  Just my experience.   When you do find one that "pops" ... sharp strike, minimal marks, great color and luster ... they are sights to behold!

Wow... I just checked this chat Board... no new entries since September 23rd?

Anyway... Roger, do you have any news about projects you are working on?  Any new books or revisions coming out soon?

...and if they blow the asteroid wrangling, and the sucker hits us straight on... we go the way of the dinosaur and no more climate change issues!  See? The ultimate case of "to solve a problem, throw money at it!"

Meanwhile, back at coins, I just bought Roger's "guide book of Peace Dollars".  can't wait to get into it this weekend...   

You heard it here first.  Expect the Mint to issue a 2033 "tribute" double eagle in 12 years (like the peace and morgan dollars issued this year).  The 33's are too important to American numismatics for the Mint to miss yet another opportunity to fleece the public...

Of course by then, Gold will be either $10,000 per ounce, or $20 per ounce (depending on whether someone has figured out a way to wrestle '16 psyche' to earth by then...)

https://www.gulftoday.ae/lifestyle/2021/08/09/nasa-to-study-16-psyche-asteroid-worth-$10-000-quadrillion 

On 8/3/2021 at 11:12 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

I have a user name, my wife and I are 66 and 70 respectively, live in a high-crime neighborhood, and leave all my windows -- and front door unlocked.  I am content.

You must have a big dog.

On 8/4/2021 at 8:20 PM, VKurtB said:

Mr. Weitzman deserves no special thanks. The new owner of the legal 1933DE has already put it on display next week in Rosemont. I’ve personally gotten to see at least 14 different 1933DE’s. The Langbord 10, the Smithsonian 2, the Farouk/Weitzman one before Weitzman bought it, and the one voluntarily surrendered after the Langbord case. I don’t buy this garbage that they are “lost to us”. Not even a tiny bit. They will be around. You just have to put down the stinking mouse and get on the road a little.

Exactly... I have also seen all of those, except the voluntarily submitted one.  I saw the Weitzman coin at the New York Federal Reserve Bank after he bought it...also got to see the gold down in the "vault" there.  Very cool.

On 8/3/2021 at 6:23 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

5% a year...you would think buying the only 1933 Saint-Gaudens would have generated a better return.  But as many of us have posted here, that is the exception.

And historical returns for most coins going back 50 or 60 or 70 or more years.....are absolutely useless because of the 1-time rise in precious metals in the 1970's and the entire monetary and exchange rate revolution we saw.

The per-annual return just matches that for the MS-67 1908-S Norweb Double Eagle, considered one of the most beautiful Saints existing today.

 

Mr. Weitzman is now in the numismatic history books... and he had the pleasure of owning a wonderful coin for 19 years... not a bad addendum to his modest investment.

On 8/3/2021 at 4:11 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

That may very well be true, but the rare exception in the furtherance of knowledge should be granted those whose life experience, impeccable credentials, irrrproachable virtue and sterling reputation in all things numismatic, make it all but illogical to deny a simple request. 

The problem is... going public doesn't only benefit the "sterling characters" you refer to.. it also informs the numismatic low-lifes (and they are out there!)  Chances are some of our erudite brethren know who Mr. or Ms. "X" is.  

As to "furtherance of knowledge"  the identity of the new owner will add little to anyone's knowledge of one of the most photographed and documented coins out there.  

If I bought it (and frankly you don't know that I didn't!), I would sure as hell keep my identity secret...for lots of reasons.   

On 8/2/2021 at 12:14 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

it probably WON'T turn out to be a good investment.

Well Mr. Weitzman's name is now added to the Farouk-Fenton coin, and I would say it was a decent investment, all the while, anonymously!  After all, who want's to be hounded by a bunch of coin dealers because they know you have a trophy coin.  Have you met some of these guys?  Yecch!  

On 7/31/2021 at 12:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Yes, everybody can do what they want when they own something.  And I understand some people want their privacy respected and have security concerns, too.  Still, I think those needs could be accomodated to meet with 1 or 2 researchers/numismatists. 

The fact that we don't even know who owns the 1921 Speciman -- like some other famous/rare coins -- is frustrating.  People have no problem showing off $50 MM homes or a $20 MM piece of art, but a coin they want it all hush-hush. 

I don't blame Mr (or Ms) 2021 for retaining their anonymity.  Mr. Weitzman didn't reveal himself as the owner until the coin was consigned for auction 19 years after he bought it.  It is nobody's business.  Let the current owner enjoy the coin in peace. I personally think it's a good rule of thumb not to blab about one's coin collection for any number of reasons.  You can probably tell I'm not a fan of "registry sets". If you want to see one, there are two at the Smithsonian, and the "Langbord 10" get shuttled around when the Mint feels like it.

The hype and excitement are greater when one of these ultra rarities comes out of hiding for another auction.    

On 7/24/2021 at 10:59 PM, VKurtB said:

We already know. They are the most prolific counterfeiters in the history of the world.

Sad but true... 

I was not aware of many Saint - Double Eagle counterfeits (other than the "omega" high reliefs.) until I got a copy of Bill Fivaz's 2005 "United States Gold Counterfeit Detection Guide"  

He has entries for 1907, 1910, 1910-D, 1913, 1915-S, 1921, 1922, 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1927-D, 1929

Have any of you ever come across any of these? 

(Incidentally, gold plated so called copy "tribute" coins don't count, since they are so awful and could never be mistaken for a real coin...)

Can you tell I'm trying to change the subject?

On 7/19/2021 at 9:27 AM, VKurtB said:

Monetary policy seldom causes inflation.

Money Supply x Velocity = Price x Quantity my friend.  Inflation didn't follow 2008 because that downturn scared the out of everyone and "V" dropped like a rock. ("money velocity" or the number of times it turns over for the uniniatied).  Instead of commodity and goods prices going up, asset prices skyrocketed (the Stock Market) so Inflation remained "under reported" in the conventional way it is measured.  Gov't sleight of hand.

Covid has blown their cover through screwed up supply chains so badly that inflation as we knew it years ago has returned. (And they keep printing money and suppressing interest rates.)

With Money Supply going up

Velocity relatively constant

Quantity of Goods and services decreased,

Prices have nowhere to go but to the Moon (and they will get there before Musk, Bezos, et. al.)

The politicians say this is all temporary...

Fill up your car with gas lately?

We'll see....       

On 7/21/2021 at 1:00 PM, RWB said:

This was published 14 years ago.....

And that's when I read it!  What I remember was all the fuss Barber put up about the Janvier machine... and was it Herring that had dies made elsewhere to thwart the mint's incompetence?

On 7/21/2021 at 10:43 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Which is the revised coin ?

old one on top... new one on bottom... new one only has 46 stars!

On 7/21/2021 at 9:34 AM, RWB said:

The revised obverse is an improvement, although the face looks "off."

There were no original "galvanos." Reductions from Saint-Gaudens' original plasters were made in hard wax. These were used to make molds in which were cast iron facsimiles approx 5-inches is diameter. From these, the Janvier lathe was used to cut original hubs. All HR and low relief $20 are based on the 2nd set of models provided in the spring of 1907 - NOT the first set from December 1906. (See Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908 for a full explanation and details.)

[Why don't collectors read the published information BEFORE asking questions?]

My Bad Roger.  Shouldn't have said Galvanos... I read somewhere they used one of those cast iron models.  Agree the results are an improvement, but a bit "funky"... it actually looks like a rush job to me... why else not update the number of stars?  Not sad to see the saccharin Ms. Busiak's eagles fly away... at least the new reverse doesn't look like a "Hallmark special"... 

On 7/20/2021 at 10:16 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Let's see some pics of both designs back-to-back......or front-to-front.

Let's get back to talking about Saints.  Does anyone have an opinion about the "refreshed" 2021 Gold Eagle obverse?  Supposedly they went back to original galvanos for the re-boot (even to the extent that the new coin only has 46 stars!)

I think it is an improvement of the 1986-2021 "skinny" liberty cartoon version... what does anyone else think?  Sadly it is a restoration of the "Barber" design, not Gus's.  

Glad to see the "family of eagles" (yuck!) reverse go, but the big eagle head is a far cry from an obvious improvement.  The more I look at modern coins, the more original Saints I find myself collecting...  

On 7/19/2021 at 3:14 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I don't believe in narratives per se -- but I believe the FACTS as outlined by RWB are stronger than Tripp's.

The hobby has tremendous respect for Roger, the depth of his research, and his avoidance of hyperbole, very well deserved in my opinion.  That said, no one can know all the facts of a 80 year old case at this point.  It was a jury trial and the jury was not persuaded that the Langboards came by the coins "honestly".  Neither am I.  Though it may have been possible for some coins to have been exchanged legally, there is no evidence that Izzy got his that way...   and he offered no evidence that he did.  We know he lied.  We know he hid coins he was sure would be confiscated for 60 years.  Had he gotten the coins in any sort of "arguably legal" way, he should have come forward with his story.  Everybody forgets the real losers in this tradgedy (and no, it's not the Langbords who were prevented from profiting from their grandfather's shady dealings)... it was the 9 or so collectors that paid good money for the coins back in the day, only to see them confiscated and "melted", denying "their" decendants some wealth in the next century that would have been honorably passed on.  I don't know the subject as well as some, certainly Roger, but to use another another aphorism.  "You don't have to be a chicken to know a bad egg"

On 7/17/2021 at 12:26 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

To the extent we can't fill-in-the-blanks on the 1933's and the Langboard Ten....fairness (IMO) should have dictated a resolution or split similar to the Farouk-Weitzman coin.  Instead, the government lied, used heavy-handed tactics, smeared, and went judge-shopping to stack the deck against the owners of the coins.

At the risk of making me (more) unpopular, I disagree about the Langbord coins.  The only reason why '33's are contraband today is because Izzy Switt lied back in the 40's about how he got them.  If they were exchanged in any legitimate way, and he had been honest about it, perhaps his descendants would be all the wealthier for it now.  Unfortunately, he refused to rat out McCann, and said he "had no more"... I also don't believe his daughter Joan didn't know about them in the safety deposit box until they were "discovered", coincidentally around the time the Farouk coin was auctioned.  She didn't go through all of her father's secret stashes when he died years earlier?

Papa probably told them to hold onto them until some future time when they might be sold under the radar, or the authorities wouldn't care anymore.  The Langbord's took a chance that the Farouk/Fenton sale gave them the chance they had been waiting for.  I still wonder if "ten" all they had.  I bet they kept back a few... 

On 7/16/2021 at 11:00 PM, VKurtB said:

I’m never going to change my mind that gold is inherently evil as money. We finally figured that out for all time in the 1970’s, the same era in which I was learning economic history. All that meshuggas in the late 19th and early 20th centuries ruined so many people’s lives. Gold has caused wars and economic calamity like nothing else. Only fiat money and floating exchange rates has literally saved the world from a Third World War and another Great Depression that would have made the one in the thirties look like a spring cotillion. 

Yes... fiat money... the savior of civilization.  Lucky us!  Since we're all dropping quotes... "The opera isn't over until the fat lady sings...."