GoldFinger1969

Very interesting...in your opinion...are these auctions MORE FREQUENT or LESS FREQUENT compared to 10 or 20 years ago ? Not only would that show the impact of the internet...but it might also portend more collections and more rare coins coming out into the marketplace as the original owners or the 1st-inheritors from original owners....decide they just want $$$ and the coins are now on the market....or they die and their estate/beneficiaries decide they don't want them, either. This is the kind of information that someone like ANA might have some idea is out that would be useful to collectors/dealers that we discussed on another thread.

Off-The-Beaten-Track Sources of Information: For any newcomers here, or even more experienced collectors looking for interesting places on the internet to scour out information on your particular coins (or the coin type).... HERITAGE & STACKS/BOWERS AUCTIONS: I find great comments on specific coins and coin types by looking for high-priced sales of a coin (i.e., Saints) which usually has lots of background information. You will NOT find it on more common and/or lower-priced sales where the coin descriptions for the auction may only run a few sentences. It's for the rare coins, expensive ones, and unique ones that will have pages of information plus commentaries by noted experts (i.e., David Akers for gold). Invaluable, IMO. DEALER WEBSITES: Need to separate fact-from-fiction but you can find interesting information that may have been printed 20 years ago during the Internet's infancy and is still up or recently found. I found some good stuff on hoards over at David Lawrence's site. FORUM THREADS: Obvious, since that's what this is. A good example would be the Saints thread here on the NGC Forums (where Roger Burdette has generously contributed his expertise and knowledge) and PCGS has some real winners, like the recent Proof Thread, the famous Franklin Gradeflation Thread, and the (unfortunately deleted ) Omega Saint Counterfeit Thread.

That's a good thread, we have some winners over here, they have some over there.

So there's only 2....for just the 1861 year....I just mis-read that sentence ? That's what I thought but the paragraph was confusing.

Does anybody know if the Paquet Reverse Morgan Dollars are limited to 2 or if there were many produced ? I know there must only be 2 specimens for 1861 (or maybe those are proofs ?), were there others produced for other years ? Here's what I read that confused me: "....Paquet Reverse double eagles have been avidly collected since they first appeared on the numismatic auction scene in 1865, just four years after the coins were struck." I don't see how something could be "avidly collected" if there were only 1 or 2 at the time, right ?

Just curious....were most of those DEs commons worth bullion value and/or heavily circulated....or were they all raw ungradeds with some real numismatic value ? I presume you're not going there for graded, certified coins ?

I get where you are coming form, but I REALLY love the majestic Eagle in flight on the Saint reverse. I think there were much worse eagles on other coins going back to the 1800's; didn't TR say that the eagle on the Liberty Head looked like a grilled squab or something like that ? Both light-years better than cartoonish-looking eagles from the early-1800's, that's for sure.

I'l leave it to the experts to chime in who actually submit, but I think the graders pretty much grade all kinds of coins for the most part. If a smaller TPG doesn't do a niche -- like world coins, for example -- I think they have that on the forms you fill out to submit. As for which companies to use for specific coins.....PCGS has the repuation of being more valuable for domestic U.S. coins, while NGC has the same reputation with foreign/world coins.

Nice !! Any favorites or special ones among the Liberty's or Saints ? My 1923-D is probably my favorite now since it's my highest-graded and most lustrous.

What do you mean ? What kind of category ?

Would I be wrong in saying that buying raw coins today is more dangersous than 10 years ago ? 25 years ago ? 40 years ago ?

BTW, Timely, nice-looking coin. Do you have other Liberty's ? Saints? Any good books on the Liberty Heads ? The only ones I have are the Bowers Red Book and the Liberty Head DE coffee-table book that I am reading now.

True, and you make some good points. The Liberty Head design has grown on me, more so for the obverse than the reverse where the Saint's eagle to me is light-years better than the one on the reverse of the Liberty Head. But as we discussed somewhere else on another thread (I don't think it was on this one)....the relatively clean, uncluttered, and "basined" fields on the Liberty Head obverse make for a very appealing coin. I have a Liberty Head DE on my Wish List.

Outright thefts from the Mint seemed to be very rare, they had good controls. I guess the question is would unauthorized usage of the dies be something they were on the lookout for (assuming they weren't destroyed at year-end). 1857-58 does appear to be when coin collecting took off. You do have some actual articles and editorials bemoaning this cult-like devotion as it was called at the time.

Very interesting....what would you say would be the split %-wise between these auctions being for actual collectors (whether intermediate or advanced) vs. novices or "accidental collectors" who just accumulated gold or silver and other stuff randomly over the years ? As a side-question...what % of the stuff is Raw vs. Graded ?

You're spot on....but you know what ? Those skills you cite as necesary might be essential to deal with people like US...but not low-brow people who have crappy "collections" or want to unload the family silverware at 40 cents on the dollar or dump some gold coins with some numismatic value for 75% of melt value (and think they got "found" money).....or sell other stuff on the cheap. I've NEVER been to a pawn shop (not sure I've ever SEEN one in the NYC area ) but they are popular across the country and they must do enough business to make a profit which means there are people that find them useful. So who's to say that a "coin dealer" which is just like Fred Sanford's "empire" in Watts, Los Angeles with a sign that says WE BUY/SELL GOLD/SILVER isn't something that can attract the 1/3rd or 1/5th of the country that is comfortable dealing in that kind of shop ? I used to buy my business suits at Barney's and Brooks Brothers....but lots of people goto Macy's or Nordstroms.

If the metal is in a thick cauldron with thick metal all around....how would there be any transfer of elements from coal or natual gas heating it below ?

Bowers and Galiette were the co-authors. Obviously, there isn't going to be videotape or a court room conviction on these illegal activities....so we basically rely on what's been handed down over the years, right ? While it COULD be true that this statement/paragraph is false -- i.e., Mint officials never did this in the mid-1800's -- it's POSSIBLE that they did. Maybe Bowers/Galiette had multiple other listings of this kind of thing going on and their degree of confidence in it having taken place was maybe pretty high (let's say 80-90%)....not 95% like in a court room where it must be "beyond a reasonable doubt" but very high...and much higher than 50-50 where you just make stuff up. Plausible ?

Wow, was just reading about Don Taxay....interesting fellow, huh ? Boy, did he do a 180 degree life correction. I wonder if he is still alive.

If you call the TPG because the coin in question costs some $$$....wouldn't someone give you some information on what caused them to grade it as such ? I wonder if they keep records (of some of the more valuable coins) and/or videotape the grading sessions. If a heavy-hitter wants an explanation on why his $20,000 coin is now worth $5,000 because of a Details grade, if it's only a few days or weeks after the grading you'd think there would be a record, no ?

The date on this incident is not that far removed from the passage in Bowers' Liberty Head DE book about re-strikings and underground Mint activities. See the Liberty Head DE thread.

I wonder about high-priced thefts....you can't get rid of them at a pawn shop or LCS....how do thieves think they'll get compensated for their risk and efforts...I mean....stealing a coin that is worth $50,000 and selling it for gold melt value isn't that smart, right ?

Thanks... here's the relevant section which you can see bleeds into an editorial from HUNT'S bemoaning the surge in coin collecting among the American people, circa 1859.

How many "back country" auctions do you have to attend to find quality stuff ? It's not like these auctions are being conducted by the Pogues, Simpsons, or Eliasbergs.....nor the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, or Astors. So is that really a practical strategy ? I goto FUN or a decent regional coin show, I'm gonna find dozens of coins that are what I am looking for. Am I going to find that same thing -- and graded -- at estate auctions ? How many am I going to have to hit ? How much time and travel and gas and motels will I go through to find what I need, whether it's a nice-loking MS-65 gold coin or some rare hard-to-find ? Don't get me wrong...I think there ARE good/great coins to be found in the backwaters of America. I just don't know if that can be a practical strategy for most of us, especially with time limitations.

You're putting together a complete or nearly-complete set of Liberty DEs ? AU-53's for the CC's ?