GoldFinger1969

Right, I brain-locked. Great job and nice job re-titling.

Also could have been among the 43 coins used to complete a bag of 1932 Saints that were with the coiner. My point was that the there was a chance to get coins (1) straight from the mint press (possible but unlikely) in early-1933 (2) from the coiner either via the bag of 1932's or other issued 1933's in March/April 1933 (3) from a bag in the vault (in 1937, and these coins would be a bit more bagmarked and beat up). I'll defer to Roger or other Philly Mint experts on 1930's coin protocol for the trail of the coins after they were struck. I just thought it was strange that even if bagged and retrieved from Vault F at the Philly Mint that the overall condition/grades of the coins weren't higher. Recall how great the 1908 Wells Fargo No Motto's were....and they were bagged and round-tripped from Central America.

Nice....not sure if everybody will see them since the title doesn't mention 1933 Saints or whatever....post them in the Saints thread with the other pics. Great find, Zadok !

I actually corresponded with Jeff Ambio (who edited the 2nd Edition), maybe I'll reach out to him and ask. Here's what Ambio said in the 2nd Edition: "I have also completely revised rarity estimates for each issue....it is important to point out that all of the rarity estimates and rankings are approximate and are less exact for common issues than they are for the rarest issues in these series." He notes that lots of common coins are NOT submitted for TPG certification. Here's something that I am just guestimating on, and you threw a cold bucket of water in this or another thread when I asked about "dribbling mini-hoards from Europe" for Saints and Liberty's: It's now almost 90 years since the last Saints were struck. Anybody who actually bought one at the time of minting has passed on.....anybody who got one as a gift is either up there in age or has passed on.....anybody who INHERITED such a coin decades ago when gold was $35/oz. has certainly by now realized the price is alot higher (bullion or numismatic value) and has submitted it to a TPG or passed on or given it to someone else. Point is.....there should be no major hoards or even mini-hoards in the States, though overseas may be another matter. Think about it: how many people could have a gold coin....a potentially RARE (extra value) gold coin....and not sell it or take it to a coin shop that would say it is worthy of being graded (if rare/scarce) or worth at least bullion (if common), especially if the condition was good enough for a premium price ?

Just like the guy who wanted his 1927-D given a LOWER grade so it would CAC sticker.

I misspoke. I meant in a bag and then moved around, like bank-to-bank or overseas. It's also possible they were taken direct from the Mint....maybe assay coins....and never put in a bag to stay with the Coiner or in a vault at the Philly Mint -- I'm just speculating, I admit. But since these coins were taken by someone with the intention of re-selling them to collectors....you'd think they'd want blemish-free coins....and that they'd use care to handle them once struck and in possesion of them. Of course, we don't know WHEN they possession took place....right after being strruck (1933)....when with the coiner....or maybe after being bagged and kept with the coiner....or bagged and in a vault (1937 most likely). We really don't know. Mark, you are right on "solid for the grade" -- I meant that just used "strong" instead.

Yeah, that is suprising....but then again CAC stickers indicate "strong for the grade." Maybe since there are NO OTHER available coins to grade or even to see (not sure Alabanese/CAC have seen the Langbord 10 sitting in Fort Knox)....then that would help the Weitzman coin sticker. Those really are pretty big gashes on Liberty's left leg. As these coins almost certainly were never in a bag, you wonder what happened. Bagmarks they clearly are not.

Here's some medium-res pics of the 10 Langbord 1933 Saints:

Without hi-def pictures, it's tough to judge how NGC graded the Langbord 10. However, it appears that they graded them pretty much on the mark -- the Weitzman/Farouk coin seems to be the one giving graders agita. I posted medium-res pics of the Langbord 10 in another thread so I'll repost them here, too.

Good point...and also, as I understand your earlier post, you employed an algorithim or adjustment factor so it is possible that small changes in this variable changed the rankings, even if no "new" coins were found -- right ?

Most Common Saints....also interesting was the change at the bottom of the Rarity Rankings. Both Roger and Akers/Ambio have the 1924 and 1927 as 53rd and 52nd, respectively. But Roger then puts the 1925, 1928, and 1908 NM 51st/50th/49th.....A&A have the 1908 NM, 1928, and then the 1925. Each has the 1928 in the 50th spot, they flip the 1908 NM and 1925 Saint. So it appears in the last decade-plus that some mini-hoards or new coins came out for the 1925's letting it leap-frog the 1928 and switch with the 1908 NM. Akers/Ambio RWB Saints 1908 No Motto 51 49 1928 50 50 1925 49 51 1927 52 52 1924 53 53

Do you have a link to the NGC article ? Thanks.... The 10 Langbord 1933's rate as follows: 1 MS-66 (the one you posted above).......2 MS-65's.......6 MS-64's......and 1 Details coin with no grade that was apparently cleaned.

What is it with the hits on Liberty's left-leg on the high-grade 1933 Saints ? They should call it a do-over...restrike them and get rid of the ones held in Fort Knox. I'll take them off their hands.

Welcome !! We have some good threads on silver and gold here, as well as the classic coins that use them. I have a few Morgan Silver Dollars as well as Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles. Also, some silver commemoratives of various types. I'm what some would call an eclectic Type collector -- not a registry player, whatever suits my fancy. I'd like to add a bit more gold (and silver) bullion -- not so much bars but modern coins and/or classics pre-1933. Also coins with a bit of numismatic value that sell for a steep premium to the underlying silver or gold metallic value but which I like for artisitic and numismatic reasons.

Yup... but you can still see the impact of mini-hoards and a coin here, a coin there....on the rankings in the 10-12 years since the data was re-done for your book.

Rarity Rankings: I was curious how the complete rankings for overall rarity had changed between RWB's SAINTS book (2018) and the Akers/Ambio 2012 Gold Coins book. I had to make an adjustment because Roger has 54 rankings, splitting the No Motto coins by rays. So that reduced by 1 the majority of coins above the mid-40's (the most common coins). Some interesting observations that jumped out: The 1932 was 7th in Akers, 4th in RWB rankings. The 1920-S and 1921 each fell 3 spots (more common) in RWB rankings: from 5 to 8 and from 4 to 7, respectively. The 1908 No-Motto and the 1920's common dates changed spots here-and-there. These are among the most common Saint-Gaudens coins. The 1908-D No Motto changed the most, going from 33 to 44 in RWB's rankings. Curiously, the 2 rankings in the SAINTS book (2 rays) were 44 and 22 -- which averages out to the 33 that Akers had. The 1908-S fell 4 spots in RWB's rankings. Other coins that moved 4 or more were the 1914-D (up, rarer), 1916-S (up), 1925-S (down, more common). The 1933, 1927-D, and 1930-S all stayed the same as the most rare, ranking 1-2-3. Most of the rankings stayed the same or moved only 1 or 2 spots.

I know it wold have increased the cost but they should have also made a 2 oz. or even 1.5 oz. version which was 34 mm. in diameter to better show the features. The 27 mm. is very small. It's THICKER than other modern gold bullion coins but smaller diameter-wise because of the thickness and ultra high relief.

Are you just starting out collecting ? What are your interests, coin-wise ? We can recommend some excellent books, websites, and threads here @ NGC if you let us know.

27 mm vs. 34 mm for the original.

Is there a way to check on the CAC site if the coin was previously submitted by an earlier owner ?

I don't think these long delays are at the local, "final mile" post offices. It appears to be at the regional sorting centers that are responsible for multiple day or week delays. I think once it's at your local post office -- unless it's in a major metropolitan area -- you get it within 1-2 days.

Yes, I remember you posted that earlier in this thread...it's why RoAC is on my BUYLIST later this year !

I guess it went online right after/during RoAC.....so I'll assume the stuff in SAINTS is at least equal to it overall, even if RoAC has some parts more in-depth than SAINTS. Probably good to hit both the book and the website, even if there's overlap, there's new stuff from both sites if you are interested in the UHR.

I'll settle for that 1908-S Norweb Saint....keep the change !

This is a great article and a good website with lots of stuff from RWB: https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/mcmviehrdoub.html I wasn't aware of it. If you have the SAINTS book, it's probably stuff you already have in greater depth than from this article/website...but still good to bookmark, since the book isn't online (yet ! )