Nutmeg Coin

On 9/25/2023 at 1:12 PM, zadok said:

...u r obviously in the wrong hobby/business...numismatic certification is a big-boys pants endeavor with all its warts, either deal with it or go elsewhere...dealers r aware of the turn arounds n rates n adjust their capital requirements accordingly collectors r along for just the ride n go with the flow...this happens to be what it currently is, whiners beware....

You apparently want to justify arbitrary turn-around times, I personally do not know any other business that is taking over a month to open mail:  "Now opening packages delivered the week of August 24, 2023".   The only thing I can think of is that you have a business association with NGC and therefore have a bias.  An honest posted turn-around time would add on the wait to open submissions.   

On 9/25/2023 at 5:23 AM, VKurtB said:

I’m afraid that @Nutmeg Coin is all wet here. There ARE specialists that are hired for particular types of coins. The beginners, making barely enough money to scrape by in Sarasota, are relegated to mostly bullion and modern NCLT, the analog of sweatshop work. The whole range of grades is 68-70. There is an absolute shortage of qualified graders of classical coins. The grading contest results at major shows prove that. Even most experienced show-going numismatists can’t grade worth a lick. 

When you have no logic to support your position that whatever the company wants to do with submissions is hunky dory then you have to resort to calling names.   If you want to schmooze with the companies at shows that's all well and good, but you're not running a business that depends on reasonable turn around times, many dealers have their capital tied up and don't want to pay high rates for grading.  And has been discussed it's not about the grading it's about the slabbing and the order entry that is now happening well over a month after the package arrives.  Is there any other business in America that takes over a month to open customer orders like this?  

On 9/22/2023 at 1:31 PM, Sandon said:

    In all likelihood the delays at both NGC and PCGS are largely due to a combination of bulk submissions of modern collectors' issues and bullion coins by dealers and submissions of low value coins that aren't worth the cost of certification by new or uneducated collectors. In each case the fault is ultimately that of collectors who believe that all of their coins must be third-party graded and refuse to collect them in mint packaging, coin albums, or other appropriate holders. The grading services make money from such submissions and have no incentive to discourage them.

It's standard operating practice to anticipate the delays and hire more staff at busy times.  They are making a huge amount of money in this business, so there really is no excuse for these delays unless a genuine extended disaster hit.

On 9/22/2023 at 11:21 AM, zadok said:

...so which do u prefer, a rush job or have their most appropriate grader for the coins u submitted?...what does a week or two difference actually matter?...i dont understand the obsession with deadlines n submission turnarounds....

80% of the graders at PCGS, NGC, ICG and Anacs agree on grades, so the idea that waiting somehow equates to more accurate or better grading is complete and utter balderdash!   Plus it's besides the point.   The one submission I have with them was graded a month ago!  And it is waiting for final slabbing, and shipping.   

No responsible business operates with this type of arbitrary business practice, customer service says they will try to find out why the submission is way longer than the projected time but nothing happens week after week!  

On 9/11/2023 at 7:17 PM, Henri Charriere said:

FWIW... I distinctly recall a line from an NGC newsletter, a few days ago, advising they were beginning to work on submissions received on August 9th.  I think it safe to say regular submissions are taking at least 30 days. [No one's brought it up yet, but there is more than one submission center as well as a slew of authorized dealers who routinely send in bulk quantities as well.]

"Now opening packages delivered the week of August 21, 2023."   I have one submission well over 10 days over target time for being done, graded over a month ago waiting for slabbing.   When I've called all I get is there was a hurricane and someone was out sick, this with a company of 700 employees according to VKurtB.

On 9/4/2023 at 7:38 PM, VKurtB said:

These are EXTRAORDINARILY popular services, overburdened by submissions that were never anticipated. NGC is very carefully but rapidly staffing up to help the situation. But until submitters regain their heretofore lost minds, delays will persist.

Sounds like a propagandist for their irresponsible business operations!  Maybe their current management should have their minds checked out for soundness and then hire some competent processing clerks so they can run their business properly!

Literally a month waiting for packages to be just opened?  And I've seen turn around times jump all over the place from 23 business days to 20 to over 40 to back to 35 or so....after the packages get opened which could be many weeks! And they tell us these are merely estimates.  How would you feel if your priority mail item with a target time of 2-3 days ends up taking 10 days??

And what business charges when they log in a submission? Hardly any business charges prior to a service being rendered.

On 8/16/2023 at 1:27 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It "owned" gold before FDR's EO that mandated it transfer it to the Treasury.  Most of the Fed higher-ups objected.

I had a customer whose father was in the car, who I met, when we did a transaction at Starbucks.   He had collected gold back in the 30s and had a couple stories.

What happened to the truly rare coins of which we have a record that they were minted and proferred to some VIP?  Such as the other 1849 Double Eagle, putatively the rarest US coin?

EF40-45.  I'm not seeing much if any luster.  Anything in the AU range would likely come back "improperly cleaned" as NGC likes to use if a coin has better details but little luster; and even EF coins should show luster.

The fact there are no Morgan dollars graded by NGC or PCGS as MS70 tells you something.  As far as I know there are a few 1880-s Morgans that graded MS69, and that issue usually comes quite nice.

Congratulations!  A true colossus in the field of numismatics, I wish that translated into big $$$ for him as well, as book writing isn't as profitable as it once was.

On 7/9/2023 at 10:33 PM, RWB said:

The US also has a long, treasured history of renewal of our population demographics -- It's called immigration. Except for Native American populations, not one American family originated here. Plus, American immigrants are the folks who will take enormous risk - literally everything - for a mere chance to have a better future. They bring new ideas, new vigor, new understanding, and new challenges for a society that is built on constant change and renewal.

Sounds like very desperate and scared people...and of course every employer wants workers who will ask no questions, that won't report illegal, immoral or criminal behavior and will do all they're told and are easily replaceable. And if the workers are illegal aliens, that can be a subset of human trafficking.  With more and more of them, our society becomes increasingly unstable.  We saw in the 1990s how local tech workers were displaced by immigrants with lower wages for those who were able to accept them.  The arguments that we can't find people to do the jobs of immigrants just isn't true if you have facilitators who can make it work.  

The Fuljienz/Winter book on double eagles is more a sales book, they gave it to collectors free of charge and it is useful for beginning collectors to get a ranking on rarity.   

Waves of hoards have come out in the last 25 years changing the population figures, shipwrecks, bank hoards from Europe, etc..   Definitely a lot of change in recent history.

Thanks for sharing the factoids from the QDB book, I always found him to be a top notch numismatist and competent writer.

Until later in the 1990s gold double eagles were not collected so much by condition as the grading system took off.  Type two DEs took off in price and interest in the late 90s and on.   It was Anthony Swiatek I believe who told me that as I didn't get into the hobby until about that time.

I've never seen such slow handling by this grading service. I sent express overnight and it has been over a week since arrival and nary a peep in the system having received my package though I was told it got to their po box based on my tracking, don't ask me how.  Presumably moderns are the bulk of their business now, but the delays have been going on for years now.  Serious profit making businesses adapt quickly.  They have expanded the call-in customer service hours but that does us no good.  Surely they have a lot of professional mail handlers that would be able to do order entry in a minute or two on my submissions.   Even had I sent in walkthroughs the delays would have been significant.  I'm thinking the foot-dragging or the back logs incentivize the submitters to bump up their submission tiers, but that is just encouraging a lack of rigorous order-entry and irresponsibility.  In the past 24-48 hours was standard on this part of the process.

If I were local I'd probably go.  There are too many coin shows as it is in my opinion.   

I sent in a couple submissions overnight express last week and was waiting to have them logged in.  I was told that they did not pick up mail on Friday and were closed until today.   What kind of realistic turn-around times are people seeing on regular submissions?

It was probably worth the submission even with what you had to pay.  Clearly they are running a business to make money and have a lot of expenses to pay.  On the coin you valued high it may still have fit under a lower tier unless they require a retail valuation for tier submissions.  In the past with NGC and NCS, I've been allowed to enter a lower figure on valuation as they let you set that and charge you on a percentage basis for conservation.  I've spoken with them on this and it's no problem.

On 11/30/2022 at 5:23 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

This is the first time in my life I heard the Blue book was high on anything, but I've only got 70 in.  Maybe I ought to wait a little more.  

I think that the "high" items, were US mint issues.  And rigorous analysis was done, auction records, ebay which goes back 90 days or so, and GS.   If you use anything as an infallible guide when buying you will be doing charity work and giving money away which there is already too much of.

A local collector had a Blue book he was consulting as I bought a significant collection from him that did not have any real rarities.  I consulted Greysheet and also auction records for the low grade raw coins.  The issue of when the book was published did not figure on most of the coins as the price changes on many coins have only glacial updates.   And Bluebook was high for market on some of the coins, but not many.   

On 11/20/2022 at 9:25 PM, EagleRJO said:

Funny stuff Sandon!  That rings a bell with the article I read a while ago.  Although, it may have just been something like staff changes or growing pains at the time since they are still around.

However, I have seen a number of coins slabbed by them going for less compared to the big boys on sites like GC.  And of the ones I had been looking at, while lately doing quite a lot of bidding on Morgans and older half dollars, there were a few that were definitely over-graded.  Like an AU Morgan with significant wear on the hair as well as on the eagles' breast and wings that would put it in the VF-XF range without a doubt.  I don't just go by what's on a label, for any TPG, which is why I noticed.

Granted it's a limited number and I don't have any slabbed by them with an issue, but it was enough combined with what I had read a while ago to put me off.  And I honestly don't see how they can take the time and have procedures in place to ensure accurate evaluation and grading, and still remain in business, with how little they charge for just basic grading.

Just my two (Indian head) Nickels. 

And that is just hate and slander against ICG that has two top graders who from what I have seen do their best to grade coins accurately; they have a guaranty like the other 3 ebay acceptable services, are very user friendly--you can actually call in on one of their certified coins for specifics and the rest of their staff are usually helpful.    They just don't have the resources to offer some of the advantages of PCGS and NGC.   

On 11/20/2022 at 6:35 PM, EagleRJO said:

I seem to recall it was ICG who may have been speculated could be on the way out, at least at that time which was a while ago, but I didn't remember specifically so I was trying not to further speculate.  Both are still up and running as far as I know, and I have heard that quite a number use ANACS for error coins.  I know they also certify the Dan Carr fantasy coins, which I don't believe others do [Moonlight Mint - ANACS Certifications].

You and Burt are badly misinformed on the market viability of Anacs as well as Icg.   They both adhere to the ANA grading standards and have good holders.  I have bought and sold both as well as the two top grading service holder coins and don't see much difference in their standards.  I know a long term high end dealer who used to use the top two services a lot but went to Anacs with $6-$8 bulk grading of many classic US and foreign coins and they sell about as strong as the others.   I wish ICG would upgrade their holders but their graders, primarily Randy Campbell and Skip Fazzari are accurate and fair graders.   In the under $1000 coin both do very well in most respects.  Once you get into the high end rarities the two top companies and cac are of primary interest. 

Looks good to me; you could cross it to a service that accepts crossovers in the holder submissions.  PCGS does that, ICG does, and probably Anacs as well.  NGC will only cross PCGS coins if they pass muster.

Curious what thread was being referenced.

There is this thread where collectors are awaiting a final verdict on whether a 1910 $10 Indian is a proof or business strike....

1910 10 dollar Indian, any chance this is a proof? Update, Back from NGC! - Page 2 — Collectors Universe