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Since the "Anaconda, you've done it again!" thread was locked down ATS, Would...

Started by MAULEMALL,

32 posts in this topic

WinstonWare

WinstonWare

Posted
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Nope I don't mind. I love the free speech of the NGC boards. What did you want to discuss? Anything? If it was right for them to consign the coin? Which of the two versions was better? Something else perhaps? hm

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

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Nope I don't mind. I love the free speech of the NGC boards. What did you want to discuss? Anything? If it was right for them to consign the coin? Which of the two versions was better? Something else perhaps? hm
I just sent Monsterman an email inviting him over here,,,The guy has a ton of knowledge..

 

I think he hit on some pretty good points about the strike being mistaken for wear..

 

 

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WinstonWare

WinstonWare

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I could see that – the strike being mistaken for wear. In my experience, it is tough to grade the early half dollars out through the CBHs because of this issue. You really need to be familiar with each date or at least each sub design and even then you’ve got some kid sticking a planchet in a screw press that a couple folks are pushing around. It’s hard to imagine that the kid always gets it in just the right spot or that the folks pushing screw press give an equal effort on each strike. I could easily understand some discrepancy in opinion on any given coin, although this was a fairly sizable discrepancy.

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ziggy29

ziggy29

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I'm not 100% convinced that there was no wear, but Gregg (aka monsterman over there) made some very cogent points about the minting process at that time, and I'm convinced that even if it's not MS, he raised some good points I hadn't thought about. His insights plus those of another expert in very early American silver coinage (cardinal) have me thinking that AU-50 was probably a bit too tight...and between that and the hints that NGC might be willing to buy back a mistake (if one was made) made them very uncomfortable.

 

Some people are justifying the lockdown because the thread had "run its course." Horsehockey. Many threads are far more useless and went on for several hundred, if not thousands, more posts without being deleted or locked. One CAC thread which was nothing more than a Python-style "No it isn't! Yes it is!" went over 600 posts with no useful or educational content and wasn't locked or deleted. Yet just as this one was starting to generate a great deal of numismatic knowledge, insight and experience....nope, that's enough.

 

I can appreciate the "don't bash the host in their house" argument, but their definition of "bash" is getting pretty ridiculous if that's why it was locked. Nobody was bashing PCGS, but a few people did start to wonder if the coin was severely undergraded at AU-50, and then the indication that NGC wanted another look at the coin to see if they needed to make things right makes the competition look good, I guess.

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

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I have seen many BU Morgans that the ear was so flat it looked almost as though someone took a file to it.. I have seen a few like that in PCGS MS slabs as well..

 

I personally think pcgs might have made a mistake.

Brandon said that NGC has taken a proactive approach and contacted the owner of the coin..

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ziggy29

ziggy29

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Brandon said that NGC has taken a proactive approach and contacted the owner of the coin..

To do what? They want to review it again?

Sounds like they want to see it again to make sure they didn't make a mistake. Wouldn't look good ATS if the competition was proactively wanting to look at a coin to right a wrong if need be...

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

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I'm not sure,,This is Brandon's post

I just wanted to add an update. NGC took a proactive position and contacted me directly yesterday afternoon regarding this coin and are currently collaborating with the consignor. I've returned the coin to the consignor and right now it's between them and NGC. I feel confident that NGC will take care of things. They've been very helpful in the past and I've never had a problem with them going the extra step to make sure issues were resolved in a quick fashion. I want to commend NGC, and especially Scott Schechter for actively going out of their way to respond to squabbles on internet messages boards about coins they've graded. If I find out anything else, I'll be sure to relay it.

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ziggy29

ziggy29

Posted
Posted
I'm not sure,,This is Brandon's post
I just wanted to add an update. NGC took a proactive position and contacted me directly yesterday afternoon regarding this coin and are currently collaborating with the consignor. I've returned the coin to the consignor and right now it's between them and NGC. I feel confident that NGC will take care of things. They've been very helpful in the past and I've never had a problem with them going the extra step to make sure issues were resolved in a quick fashion. I want to commend NGC, and especially Scott Schechter for actively going out of their way to respond to squabbles on internet messages boards about coins they've graded. If I find out anything else, I'll be sure to relay it.

This, more than anything, might be why they locked it. Guess they decided deleting the thread would look a little TOO bad.
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ziggy29

ziggy29

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Did Gregg Bingham(aka: Monsterman) consignment the coin to Anaconda?
Though I'm not certain, according to what I could piece together, that's what it sounds like.
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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

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I think it's more like ,,Did we screw somebody out of 60K.

 

And I don't mean that as a dig.

But from $30.000 to $90.000 would give a bit of a pause to some as far as submissions go....

 

Which brings up ,What recourse would the original submitter have if it were to be found out that pcgs did screw the pooch...

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ziggy29

ziggy29

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Which brings up ,What recourse would the original submitter have if it were to be found out that pcgs did screw the pooch...

None that I know of. I think the guarantees only apply to overgraded coins, not undergraded coins.

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

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Did Gregg Bingham(aka: Monsterman) consignment the coin to Anaconda?
Though I'm not certain, according to what I could piece together, that's what it sounds like.
Bring him over..He posts well.
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123cents

123cents

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I think he did Ziggy. I just saw on the NGC site where they have certified 52 commemorative halves know as the "Bingham Collection".

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

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I think he did Ziggy. I just saw on the NGC site where they have certified 52 commemorative halves know as the "Bingham Collection".
The guy knows of what he speaks...

Some of his commentary on different commems is really interesting.

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ziggy29

ziggy29

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For what it's worth, I posted on some of this in Mark's thread about overgrading/undergrading an hour or two ago...and it got pulled, though I have NO idea why... if a mod could enlighten me as to what was wrong with it, I'd appreciate it....

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

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Maybe you can do a report on it for school...What I read on my summer vacation lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:jokealert:

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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Which brings up ,What recourse would the original submitter have if it were to be found out that pcgs did screw the pooch...

None that I know of. I think the guarantees only apply to overgraded coins, not undergraded coins.

 

There very well might be some legal recourse if the coin was grossly undergraded and that cost the owner a lot of money. After all, people are paying for a professional opinion and if they fail to give a proper opinion, they potentially could be held liable.

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DirtyGoldMan

DirtyGoldMan

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Did Gregg Bingham(aka: Monsterman) consignment the coin to Anaconda?
Though I'm not certain, according to what I could piece together, that's what it sounds like.

 

I don't believe monsterman owns it. He was asked directly, at one point, and (sort of) denied it.

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DonHeath

DonHeath

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I think Monsterman was doing a pretty good job of explaining how PCGS was originally fooled by the coin, and how he thought there was a chance the coin was MS. Cool thread. You've got PCGS, NGC, and a PNG dealer all saying the coin is either AU-50, MS-61, worth 30k or worth 90k. BTW - there's a lot of difference in AU-50 (no luster AU, barely AU) and MS-61. How will retirement fund managers know the difference. PCGS guarantees their grade, NGC guarantees their grade, Adrian offered money back on the coin if not satisfied. I'm sure the dealer consortium would have guaranteed a strong wholesale bid on the coin at AU-50 before it was reholdered. Big deal. Three expert opinions just weren't adequate. One more ought to finally make investors safe. doh! This kind of thread is bad for the business. That's why the thread was locked. JMO

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dena

dena

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It was not your post that was the problem it was the post directly before yours ...Unfortunately when a mod pulls a post, any post that is in response to it also goes. I'm told that in the new version of this board software we should be able to better isolate an offending post though I have not been able to make that happen.

 

 

 

Edited to add: I figured out how to put your post back. It should be right where you left it. Me likey this new software :banana:

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poorguy.-migration

poorguy.-migration

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I just re-registered here because I couldn't find my original log-in info. I'll be happy to relay the information I recieve about the progress of this coin if it's disclosed to me by the consignor or NGC. Also, there was a rumor that Greg was the consignor of the coin. He was not.

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