How to grade a Morgan dollar?

[notabene-migration]

Hi,

 

I'm a long-time coin collector who has been away from the hobby for a long time and within the last few months I have been sucked back in bigtime. It was mainly prompted by my wife receiving some coins that had belonged to her grandfather. He used to have coffee cans full of Morgan dollars, but we only recovered about 40 Morgans in a glass jar plus a change purse with mostly foreign coins whose dates suggest they were collected during WWII.

 

While there are some coins that I know quite well, Morgans are not one of them--yet. An issue for another day is all the VAMs (I've already learned I have an 1879-S rev. of 1878 with PAF but unfortunately it's not one of the nicer-looking ones).

 

My main issue is grading Morgans generally: I've bought a book and tried looking at high-quality photos online of NGC or PCGS-graded Morgans to try to get the feel for it, but it often seems to me like a given coin could fall anywhere from AU-55 to MS-65 and I'd barely see the difference. The descriptions people use to explain what areas to focus on don't make sense to me. I think I need some great photos with little red arrows pointing to the distinguishing areas or something for numerous grades. (Obviously an in-person hands-on lesson would be preferable, but I'm working with the medium we've got.)

 

So, I've also learned that while I fancy myself a decent photographer, I am terrible at photographing coins. I'm going to devote myself to studying some of the WYNTK articles on this topic and figure it out, but in the meantime I threw one of the less nicked Morgans on the scanner to ask you folks to take a look. This image kills the luster, but does indicate how relatively uncirculated this one appears (to me!) to be. I also scanned it inside the flip, so I'm not sure if that had negative effects. Anyway, could people either walk me through what they'd look at on this particular coin to get a +/- 1 estimate of the grade or provide a Morgan grading tutorial generally? I suppose I'm going to ultimately pick five of the better-looking ones to send in for grading to see if that teaches me anything, but I'd prefer to have a clue what I'm looking for as I make those selections.

 

Edited on 7-15 to add photo below:

[bsshog40]

First of all it will be hard with these pics. I can't quite tell what is on the face of liberty. For the Obverse, the liberty's face is one of the key areas for grading due to it being of such high relief. If the marks are contact marks, then I would have to say MS61-MS62. For the Reverse, the breat feathers are the high relief here. These seem to look decent also. Still MS62. I would suggest getting a couple books. The "ANA Grading Standards" and "Photograde". Both are very good books and explain in detail each grade with pictures. They will also give you more info for grading these Morgans as to wear in the Liberty cap, cotton balls, the Eagles legs and wing tips. You may also want to check out PCGS value Guide. It will give you a little insight as to the higher end values of these Morgans once you get the grading close. this way you won't be wasting alot of grading fees on coins that really aren't valued very high. This Morgan for instance is about $37 at MS62. That's a retail price so may only sell for about $25-$30.

 

Hoped that I helped and welcome to the forum. There are alot of more knowledgeable members of Morgans here that will probably be able to help you more.

[notabene-migration]

Yeah, the dark areas above and below her eye on this one show up a lot more on this scan than they do when you're just looking at it. I have a 10x loupe and it doesn't even look bad (to me-who may not know what to look for) under that.

 

Some of the coins just look dirty and I believe someone in the house was a long-time smoker, so I wonder if some of these might be better sent to NCS first and then over to NGC if there's any helping them--but your point is well-taken on the value issue, one of these is an 1896-S and it looks nearly as good as this scan, so if that came back MS62 or MS63 we'd be talking about a 2 or 4 thousand dollar coin. Wish I could find those coffee cans full of these that he had...

[Bruceswar]

Just a guess MS 63.. Welcome to the forums!

[rbrown4]

Welcome to the boards here. I would tend to agree that this Morgan would fall into the MS-62 to MS-63 range. Bobby was correct in pointing out both Photograde and the ANA Standards for Coin Grading. Photograde would be good for circulated coins through the AU grades. The ANA Standards book is excellent for all grades of coins and contains very specific details for each type of coin to look for under the different grades. Another good resource I have found is Heritage Auction Galleries whose web site you can register on for free. It contains historical information on coins that have been auctioned including pictures as well as realized values.

 

And you should use these forums as well as a resource, the folks on here are very helpful and always willing to provide an opinion on a coin's condition, grade, etc. and answer any questions you may have. There is an unlimited amount of experience roaming through these forums.

 

Welcome,

 

Rey

[cpm9ball]

Welcome to the neighborhood, nb!

 

The New Orleans Mint is known for running the gamut in striking. This particular one, the '84-O, can be readily found in all MS grades from 60-65. Oftentimes, you will see the hair just above the ear weakly struck. On yours, you can see evidence of wear just above the forehead, but on the reverse the detail of the breast feathers is pretty good. Even though it's hard to determine from a scan, I would be inclined to agree with 63 as long as the mark above and below Liberty's eye is not too severe. Also, I can't tell if the reverse is just dirty or that is toning muted by the scan. Toned coins are becoming more and more popular, and sale prices are reflecting it. However, it is a little difficult placing a value on some of the toned specimens.

 

If you find yourself becoming interested in the varieties, it can be a daunting experience. There are more than 3,000 varieties! The Comprehensive Catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan and Peace Dollars by Leroy C. Van Allen and A. George Mallis is the best reference book available. By the way, it looks like your '84-O might be a VAM13, O/O Centered High. Another good reference book is The Official Red Book of Morgan Silver Dollars by Q. David Bowers.

 

If you're going to try to make comparisons between your specimens and those of other grading companies, be sure to stick to the top three - PCGS, NGC & ANACS. But, whatever you do, DO NOT believe most of what you hear from the so-called coin gurus of the tv shopping networks.

 

Have fun!

 

Chris

 

 

[SuperDave]

With the understanding that this is a scan, I believe the coin to be a strong MS63 with a good shot at 64. Here's why:

 

Scans show luster as dark areas. The first conclusion is that your coin isn't terrifically lustrous, which counts against it. However, much of what I'm seeing on Liberty's face (the primary area, in addition to the obverse fields and eagle's breast, where marks count against Morgans) is dark, leading me to believe that those marks are less serious in-hand than in the scan. Such is the case with the prominent mark around the eye - I'm guessing that to be more of a swipe than a gouge. The only real gouges I see on the face are in the lower quadrant, below and behind the mouth, and they're relatively minor. Another area of potential concern is below and behind the eye - maybe chatter, maybe not.

 

The obverse shows what could be wear, or could be a weak strike, in the hair details above the ear and eye. When confronted with such "wear," one immediately looks to the reverse for confirmation. On the reverse, knowing that 1884-O's can be expected to have weak strikes, I see a pretty strong one. The breast feathers are nicely defined, with just a touch of darkness at the tips, as to be expected of an Uncirculated coin. The neck feathers, which begin to lose detail early in the wear process, also look strong. The two largest leaves at the bottom of the wreath, one of the early indicators of strike quality, are excellent, as are the leading (top) edges of the wings. I see just the beginnings of flatness on the eagle's face and talons. In all, a strong reverse strike on an Uncirculated coin.

 

There's just a little chatter in the reverse fields, off the arrow points and the end of the branch in the eagle's talons. Only the one obvious mark near the 8:00 star detracts from a strong reverse.

 

In all, a pretty strong coin. Now, understand, I'm reaching pretty far based on what I can see in one scan thru the flip, so take my words with a grain of salt.

 

Browse over to Heritage Galleries, and register for a free membership:

 

http://coins.ha.com/default.php

 

That will give you access to their huge archive of auction results, numbering over a million coins. You can find virtually every Morgan issue slabbed in almost every Uncirculated grade, with high-definition photos to help you with the grading process. Take all of this with a grain of salt, also, because the major TPG's have been, at times, um, optimistic in their grading. So, be conservative when using these results as a grading aid. Even using Photograde (a book which is never out of my reach when I'm grading), I still feel this to be an MS63 coin, based on my knowledge of how scans translate into real-world appearance.

 

One more thing. Get a loupe onto the mintmark. 1884-O's are known for O/O overstrikes, and I believe I see such a feature in yours. It looks like there might be the top loop from an underlying mint mark inside. This will probably not increase the value of your coin, but if you're going to be playing with Morgans, you might as well attribute them too.

 

Here are two resources to help you attribute this coin:

 

http://vamworld.wikispaces.com/1884-O+VAMs

 

http://dmplvam.com/VAM/1884/

 

So the Major takeaways are:

 

1) Face, obverse fields, and breast feathers first.

 

2) Strike quality varies by date and mint. Know what to expect.

 

3) There's a big difference between market grading and strict grading with Morgans.

 

4) If you're still stuck between AU and MS, look to the reeding for hints.

[SLQS-migration]

YOU CAN TRY EBAY IF THERES NO SHOWS AROUND!

[rrantique]

[font:System]Hi and welcome to the forum Notabene. Very nice 84-o and i agree with Super Dave on grade. That coin has a great strike for a New Orleans [/font]

 

[notabene-migration]

Superdave,

 

Wow! Eagle-eye there on the O/O issue! Under magnification when looking at the upper part of the O it does look like you can see another O underneath. See, this is what I'm talking about with all the VAM #s. It seems like Morgans have been so collected and studied that you experts could tell me what the name of the die press operator was. "That's an 1884-O stamped by Jacob Smith. Too bad it's not a Nancy Cunningham, as the ones she pressed are really rare as she went on maternity leave from the mint that year..." ETC! It seems to me it's almost that ridiculous! I've got a lot to learn there and really appreciate the dmplvam link as I hadn't found that site yet.

 

Also didn't know about Photograde, but will be picking up a copy of that soon.

 

As a newcomer to the forums I don't know what's customary, but if people enjoy sizing these up, I could post some more. Maybe I'll try my hand at actual photographs again...but the experience so far (even with my 5 megapixel camera) has been frustrating!

 

Thanks again for the tips!

[cpm9ball]

It seems like Morgans have been so collected and studied that you experts could tell me what the name of the die press operator was. "That's an 1884-O stamped by Jacob Smith. Too bad it's not a Nancy Cunningham, as the ones she pressed are really rare as she went on maternity leave from the mint that year..."

 

Well, not really, but it just happens that your coin was struck late on a Friday afternoon and the employees were anxious to go home. It was raining cats and dogs so they decided to work until the rain stopped. The boss came in and told them there would be no overtime pay authorized, so they called Dominos for pizza and had a Budweiser truck make a delivery. That is how it happened that the employee handling the mintmark punch couldn't overcome his tipsy state and his attempts were all over the place...........centered high, centered left, centered low & centered right.

 

Chris

[rrantique]

[font:Arial Black]Dominos delivery service 1884 [/font]

[notabene-migration]

So now I've added a photo. Figured out the "Super Macro" mode on my camera. Unfortunately, the incandescent lamp I had the coin under makes the photo appear more golden than the coin does--it (not surprisingly) looks far more SILVER than those photos suggest. I'll keep at it.

 

One thing that does come out is that what looked like a scratch on the reverse at the 8 o'clock star was either on the scanner or the flip as it's not on the coin. The photo also gives a better--but not perfect--representation of what the area around her eye looks like.

[ziggy29]

If you haven't seen it yet, Morgans are used as an example of grading Mint State coins in this work by Jim Halperin. Mr. Halperin is generally considered to be one of the best graders on the planet and is a past winner of the PCGS World Series of Coin Grading.

 

[SuperDave]

Your color problem is one of white balance - depending on your camera, you should have predetermined settings to accompany varying light types, and hopefully a Custom setting so you can adapt the camera to whatever the ambient light is. I took the liberty of removing the color:

 

 

If anything, I like the coin better in a photograph than a scan.

[bsshog40]

I like this pic alot better. It actually shows the luster better and what looked bad on the Obv is not so bad. I would have to change my grade guess to MS63-64 now.

[MikeKing]

This is a great post and welcome to the boards. Super Dave, what a great response, I learned a lot.

 

from someone who doesn't know how to grade Morgans, the little I did learn or gain some confidence in, was when I first examined a few MS67 Morgans. Then, and only then, did I learn what to expect and not expect in a 65.

[SuperDave]

This is a great post and welcome to the boards. Super Dave, what a great response, I learned a lot.

 

from someone who doesn't know how to grade Morgans, the little I did learn or gain some confidence in, was when I first examined a few MS67 Morgans. Then, and only then, did I learn what to expect and not expect in a 65.

 

Thank you for the kind words, Mike. There is, to me, nothing else in numismatics with the same raw sex appeal as a Superb Gem Morgan. Wish I could afford one.