Any comments about NGC/PCGS grading of gold?

[MikeKing]

I talked to a major dealer who specializes in gold the other day, and they told me they are using NGC mostly, because they feel NGC 'now', is much more consistent in grading than PCGS. They did say that this could change, and when it does, they will use whatever grading service they feel is the most 'consistent'.

 

I also noticed another major dealer in gold, sells mostly NGC graded gold.

 

Since I'm not really familiar with gold and grading gold, what are your thoughts about this, and the different grading services wrt grading gold?

[jtryka]

I've felt for a while now that NGC has been more consistent in grading gold in my area (i.e. AU grades through MS-65, not the super high end MS-68 nonsense). This is why in gold, particularly dated gold, there is little if any premium for one service over the other, unlike many other series. Even so, the usual caveat applies, I've seen dogs in both holders!

[DC Dawg]

For the last year or so, I've thought that NGC was more consistent on all coins than across the street. Between my submissions and anecdotal evidence from others, there seems to be an edge to NGC. No, I am not sucking up the NGC because we're on their boards!

 

Scott

[MBA101]

All my gold is NGC, except for my last purchase. I thnk NGC has been consistant and fair with most (not all) of my $20's. If you are after rarities, then PCGS is the better holder for your sale, but not necessarily for buying, if you catch my drift. But with the exception of the higher grades, the cost the same. I think I have seen more dogs in PCGS holders, but I cannot say my sample is large enough to be fair. If you have the chance to view coins before you buy, that is my recommendation. Pics suck. Buy what looks good for the grade.

[michael]

the below are some general thoughts (unless otherwise specifically stated) for ngc/pcgs graded gold only

 

there are dogs in both holders...............

 

there are super killer correctly graded even undergraded coins in both holders

 

pcgs is more conservative in grading au to choice au gold than ngc

 

but both services have grade-inflation in general for xf to choice au gold and you really got to look for something that is not only high end but PQ for the grade

 

and of couse the last few months ngc and pcgs are undergrading and currently ngc is on a body bag kick

 

but i love it as there are recently undergraded coins in both pcgs and ngc holders coming out of the services if not bodybagged for no reason........ well there is a reason as they are both grading as they where in 1987 which in and of itself is a good thing if you arre a current buyer of newly slabbed gold coins and of course there are also many overgraded and outright mistakes in current holders also i have seen them so be careful

 

ngc is currently more harder and more conservative with territorial gold also the gold coins look great in their white holder

 

 

it all depends on the series and coin , specific coin

 

and there is a huge amount of processed, conserved whatever you call it canary bright yellow gold ms and proof and higher grade circ gold in both holders and both seem to love processed canary yellow rat ugly gold coins especially so territorials, brilliant and matte proof gold,

threes and southern gold ..... lots of processed stripped resurfaced proof gold or just plain dipped stripped monster bright yellow and these usually make it into higher grade ultra and deep cameo holders. also the matte proof gold you used to be able to tell the date just by the color of thecoin and even just looking at the reverse based on the color and so many have been stripped and dipped that they all look the same and in my opinion ruined the coin

 

but in higher graded holder and they are selling

 

not to me

 

 

but again it is on a case by case basis and if you choose carefully you can get some really killer undergraded coins in both pcgs and ngc holders with regards to gold coinage

 

it is market acceptable to the majority of buyers in the market and of course it is really market acceptable to the submitters especially so if they are getting better grades and designations which they are this is why they are conserving, stripping, dipping, re-processing and re-submitting

 

and this is not a good or bad thing .... but it is not market acceptable to me

 

choices---- all about choices and i hopre you make all the right ones

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[123cents]

I don't like to pay a premium for the holder so I usually buy gold graded by NGC.

[BillJones]

I don't like to pay a premium for the holder so I usually buy gold graded by NGC.

 

That's a good strategy if you know how to grade gold coins. One average PCGS is more conservative than NGC, but you need to match the price and the REAL GRADE with the coin. Paying a huge premium because a gold coin is in a PCGS holder when the coin is very average or below average for grade is for dummies. People who know how to grade coins do better than those who buy labels.

 

Recently I really goofed up and bought a PCGS gold coin that had PVC on the reverse. I kicked myself when I got home, spotted it and took a $120 hit when I blew the coin off to a dealer at the next show. I thought about trying to use the PCGS guarantee, but concluded that would cost me more in postage than it was worth even if PCGS honored their commitment.

 

Basically the guarantees are not worth squat. If you screw up when you buy a coin because the coin is improperly graded, you are no better off than you were in the old days when all coins were raw. You will lose money, or you will do a job on somebody else. I just sell the junk to another dealer at a fair price to him, take my lumps and move on.

[DirtyGoldMan]

There has a been a similar recent discussion ATS. Here was my post on the subject:

 

"I have provided incontrovertible evidence here over the years that NGC is generally looser than PCGS for grading rare date gold, especially southern gold. There is no question in my mind that this is so. No amount of hand-waving, arguing, name-calling will convince me otherwise. Now, that does not help when evaluating a single coin, but if you take a 100 NGC-graded southern gold coins from the bourse and crack them out and submit them to PCGS, the results of such an experiment will no doubt support my viewpoint. "

[DaveG]

I think the main reason dealers sell a lot of gold (especially pre-Civil War Coronet gold) in NGC holders is that they get the grades they "want".

 

As SageRad/RYK said, that doesn't help you in evaluating an individual coin. He's also said (ATS) that he feels that PCGS is more likely to net-grade a coin that NGC would body bag.

 

And, as Michael said, there are a lot of dipped and otherwise "processed" gold coins in both companies' holders.

 

The more you learn and the pickier you are, the better off you'll be.

[Doogy]

echoing the sentiments expressed in RYK/Sage's post ATS (article written by Mr. Winters), the author states that NGC tends to be a bit looser in grading that type of gold, but PCGS will net grade gold material that would be bagged by NGC for cleaning/damage.

 

personally, i'd rather have an "overgraded" coin than a cleaned/damaged coin with a "correct" grade that doesn't signify the problem on the slab. i'm surprised that PCGS would net grade, especially since the type of gold being discussed is seen as more of a purist type collector series, rather than the run-of-the-mill stuff that is pawned off on the elderly by phone hacks. The true collector can probably tell that the coin is damaged, even slightly so, and would raise a bigger stink about it than the person that buys a box full of common date MS62 slabbed Saints as an investment vehicle.

[Houston Investor]

As long as I agree with the grade on the holder makes no difference to me. I like the look of the NGC holder better and with its ANA / PNG logo it has been more marketable, especially to retail buyers at shows.

 

As far as certified submissions, I prefer NGC over PCGS for a variety of reasons.

[rbrown4]

Fist of all, I have only used NGC so far except for some cleaned coins that have gone to ANACS. I am very happy with the grades received for the most part and believe they have been consistent.

 

In previous discussions with a few of the major auction venues, there has been a common "unofficial" pattern being communicated to me verbally that they would look at certain coins and those that are high end/rare/valuable Gold would likely be sent to a specific TPG or submitted to them for possible upgrade. Main reason was that they again "unofficially" insinuated that the end result would be a higher sale price. This message was relayed to me without them knowing what firm had graded or was going to grade my coins.

 

How much should one trust or take the "unofficial" advice of the auction venues as described above.

 

Rey

 

[Oldtrader3]

In the present state of PCGS/NGC grading quality, I prefer NGC gold grading most of the time. There are times though that I do not agree with some of the coins in NGC AU50-53 holders. IMHO these coins have excessive wear for AU50-53 grades. So again, we return to "buy the coin, not the holder".

 

Also, I have seen many PCGS, MS62 gold coins that I would call AU55.

[rbrown4]

How is it that on my reply a couple replies above, I had originally typed the intitials for Numismatic Guarranty Corporation and now it has been changed to CGC underlined as a link to the Collectors Society Page? It automatically does it when you try to post a reply or post using the three initials N G C.(without spaces in between)

 

Rey

[rrantique]

How is it that on my reply a couple replies above, I had originally typed the intitials for Numismatic Guarranty Corporation and now it has been changed to CGC underlined as a link to the Collectors Society Page? It automatically does it when you try to post a reply or post using the three initials N G C.(without spaces in between)

 

Rey

 

[font:System]Now that is weird Rey sounds like someone has written some of the code wrong [/font]

 

NGC NGC ngc

[bsshog40]

Dang Irvin, how are you getting the little guys to be big? <<< Look at him. I can hardly see him!