1795 Flowing Hair Half

[LostDutchman-migration]

Hey gang! I wanted to share this coin with you guys and get some opinions. This coin just came back to me from NGC in a body bag cleaned (?) and I was wondering if there was anything anyone could see that might explain that... I was positive that this coin was a sure thing to holder as I believe it is a dead nuts original coin and I have seen coins just like it in holders. All opinions welcome! Thanks in advance!!

 

 

 

[jtryka]

I don't see the cleaning, but then again, to be sure you need to be able to rotate it around in the light to see hairlines etc. Sure looks like a great coin to me though!

[MBA101]

Sometimes borderline coins (it looks like it may have been given a lite cleaning way long ago) do not get the benefit of the doubt. You may even try submitting it to PCGS to see what they say.

[RUSS BEGA]

it looks likr it might have been bb'd for some of those hairlines...

[Broc Mitchell]

If that is the case I wonder how effective it would be to carry it around with a roll of old copper cents in a pocket for about a week or two to give some wear, not enough to horribly degrade but enough to wear off any small problems? If it worked a slightly lower grade non problem coin might be better than a higher grade problem coin.

 

-Broc

[carson city]

Why speculate---ask NGC

[WoodenJefferson]

Why speculate---ask NGC

I'm brazen enough to speculate why this particular coin was returned "cleaned" I don't have a problem looking a an image posted on these boards and offering an opinion.

 

That's exactly what it is, an opinion from looking at coins over the years and speculating as to why?

 

Why not?

 

NGC will not tell you, it simply falls under a wide specturm of returned to submitter "no grade"

 

carson city, you sure have a problem with these kind of posts, what gives, not quite sure of what to say?

 

If you look at the date and and legends, you will see parts of trapped debris, but it is virtually free of this on both sides. A coin with this much circulation is bound to have lots of discoloration close to the letters and devices and even in between the dentils.

 

All these areas are devoid of crust so it is believed that these areas were improperly cleaned somewhere along the line, resulting in a "no grade"

 

In my opinion, PCGS will boot this coin faster than a rushed punter.

[123cents]

I would try submitting it to PCGS or ANACS and see what they have to say.

 

Edited to add: I just found out that all five coins I sent to NGC have been BB for improper cleaning. I know for a that 3 of them have never been cleaned. Oh well..you live and learn. That is it for me with NGC. I will never send another coin to them to scrutinize.

[coinman1794]

It looks pretty nice to me from your pictures, but if hairlines or unnatural shine appear at certain angles, then they should have bagged it.

[WinstonWare]

The coin has only the slightest patination and is far too bright to be original. I wouldn’t send it back in…

[lkenefic]

Tough coin...in any grade. It's near impossible to find any of these early silver pieces that haven't been cleaned or dipped at some point in their history...unless you're paying for an MS piece with a pedigree. To bb it seems a tad excessive in my opinion.

 

L

[WinstonWare]

http://www.ivyleaguecoin.com/circulatedtype.html TomB's site.

 

 

Look at these and in particular at the 1794. That is what silver from 200 years ago should look like. In my opinion, and not to be argumentative, but just truly in my opinion it wouldn’t be fair to original and close to original coins to slab bright white silver from 200 years ago.

 

Edited for spelling and I'm too embarrassed to say which word

[Fletcher]

I like it ... but it definitely looks cleaned.

[coinman1794]

To bb it seems a tad excessive in my opinion.

 

I agree, unless there is something we are not seeing. The majority of Flowing Hair halves are unoriginal and lighter in color, but if there is actual cleaning damage (hairlines and the like are the reason cleaning is bad in the first place) then the coin is a no-grade.

[jesbroken]

I have absolutely no problem with the coin having been cleaned. I see several instances of this with the scratches, the light toning, the denticles not containing grit or grime. What I do have a problem with is a 213 year old coin not being certified and slabbed by anyone-NGC or PCGS. This is Bull-------. There are not many coins at all this old that have not had some sort of cleaning that would BB coins. Why not give coins 150+ years of age a break and certifiy them with cleaning notations. Give US a break!!!!!!!!

[lkenefic]

http://www.ivyleaguecoin.com/circulatedtype.html TomB's site.

 

 

Look at these and in particular at the 1794. That is what silver from 200 years ago should look like. In my opinion, and not to be argumentative, but just truly in my opinion it wouldn’t be fair to original and close to original coins to slab bright white silver from 200 years ago.

 

Edited for spelling and I'm too embarrassed to say which word

 

I see your point. Even the 1834 CBH in MS65 I was holding today wasn't blast white...it was very nicely toned. However, I was looking at the toning around the edges on the coin from the original post and attributing the whiteness to photography. I guess the more I look at it the more I can conceive of hairlines...L

 

edited to say: I still like this piece...

[James_OldeTowne]

I have to agree that the subject coin looks cleaned. In fact, it actually looks slightly tooled as well, but that's probably just an imaging artifact. This coin might be a candidate for being stored in a Kraft envelope a few months, and after it reacquires a decent patina, try again to get it graded.

[WinstonWare]

I have absolutely no problem with the coin having been cleaned. I see several instances of this with the scratches, the light toning, the denticles not containing grit or grime. What I do have a problem with is a 213 year old coin not being certified and slabbed by anyone-NGC or PCGS. This is Bull-------. There are not many coins at all this old that have not had some sort of cleaning that would BB coins. Why not give coins 150+ years of age a break and certifiy them with cleaning notations. Give US a break!!!!!!!!

 

The truth is that they do give older coins a break. Many are quietly net graded. Cuts, minor rim dings, washings, and even slightly bent coins are all slabbed so long as the “problem” occurred around the same time as the piece was in circulation.

 

The cleaning here appears recent – say in the last 25 years. I think that’s why they bagged this one.

 

As a side not, the 1795 is not the rarest old coin in the world. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to own one and don’t. With that said, I could probably find 5 or 6 available online right now…

[michael]

ngc is currently on a bodybag craze

 

you got to tone the coin down some and re-submit