The dreaded fingerprint and its effect on a coin's grade...

[MarkFeld]

Some collectors dislike fingerprints, while others hate them and avoid them at all costs. Some fingerprints are barely visible and/or blend in with a coin's patina, while others (pun intended) stick out like a sore thumb (or other finger).

 

So, the question is - how much should a print affect a coin's grade?

One point? Two? Three? All of the above, depending upon the particular coin and print(s) in question? What do YOU think and why?

[bsshog40]

Myself, I would think that it would pertain to how much the fingerprint is distracting to the coins overall appearance. If it blends in but is still noticeable, then 1 point. Then down the scale as the print is more distracting.

[MikeKing]

You know, I'm amazed at how many people dislike fingerprints...of any kind...

I think, once, I ran a poll, here or accross the street, and the majority of people did not want fingerprints on their coins.

 

I don't think a fingerprint should in and of itself lower the grade of a coin by any point or fraction of a point. If it becomes terribly obstructive, then, I can understand it's affecting the grading process, but by how much, I couldn't say.

[Dcoin]

I think it depends on the coin. If the fingerprint is accompanied by an unusual toning pattern then it'd be a plus. However a big ol' print on an otherwise clean proof surface would be horribly distracting.

[cpm9ball]

To me, it depends on the coin.

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

A fellow board member showed me a PCGS MS-68 coin with a blatant fingerprint at the Mid-America show, so I guess it doesn't affect the grade all that much. Personally, I'd as well do without, but there have been coins I've seen that had nice character due to fingerprint toning.

[physics-fan3.14]

I really think it depends on the situation. It could lower the grade a point, or more, or none. For example, a white coin with a fingerprint is just ruined. A toned coin with a fingerprint and funky toning patterns that is really eye appealing might actually get a boost. That being said, I would never grade a coin with a fingerprint higher than 65, and even then it would have to be an exceptional coin.

 

The thing I am always afraid of with fingerprints is that there are still oils left on the coin and that they are eating away at my coin. I would have to be sure that the coin has been conserved and stabilized before feeling safe.

[michael]

Some collectors dislike fingerprints, while others hate them and avoid them at all costs. Some fingerprints are barely visible and/or blend in with a coin's patina, while others (pun intended) stick out like a sore thumb (or other finger).

 

So, the question is - how much should a print affect a coin's grade?

One point? Two? Three? All of the above, depending upon the particular coin and print(s) in question? What do YOU think and why?

 

1----it all depends and depending on the fingerprint it might not affect a coins grade at all

 

2----- and in some cases depending on placement and how it can be seen might add value confirming originality....

 

3----in other cases it might affect the grade by a point to a point and a half................

 

 

usually it depends but it is rarer as per the above numbers 1 and 2 not to affect the grade and to actually help the coin this again would be rare as usually it is number 3

 

 

and the above is only concerning pre 1915 proof and biz strike mintstate coins............

[PerryHall]

A fellow board member showed me a PCGS MS-68 coin with a blatant fingerprint at the Mid-America show, so I guess it doesn't affect the grade all that much. Personally, I'd as well do without, but there have been coins I've seen that had nice character due to fingerprint toning.

 

That finger print may have showed up after the coin was slabbed. A couple of years ago there were some complaints on the "other coin forum" that coins were coming back from PCGS with finger prints that weren't on the coins when they were originally submitted. The graders and the folks in the slabbing room do not wear gloves so there is ample opportunity for finger prints to happen.

[rrantique]

Maybe we can get CSI to tell us who the perpertrator was. Might increase the pedigree.

 

ie Al Capone.

[pendragon1998]

The graders and the folks in the slabbing room do not wear gloves so there is ample opportunity for finger prints to happen.

 

I don't have any clue why they do it that way. I use nitrile gloves to handle raw coins and I don't experience a loss of tactile sensation. I rather doubt that surgeons would agree that gloves ruin your fine motor control.

[RUSS BEGA]

Maybe we can get CSI to tell us who the perpertrator was. Might increase the pedigree.

 

ie Al Capone.

[Revenant]

The graders and the folks in the slabbing room do not wear gloves so there is ample opportunity for finger prints to happen.

 

I don't have any clue why they do it that way. I use nitrile gloves to handle raw coins and I don't experience a loss of tactile sensation. I rather doubt that surgeons would agree that gloves ruin your fine motor control.

 

It's because cotton is apparently the only kind of glove.

[IGWT]

1----it all depends and depending on the fingerprint it might not affect a coins grade at all

 

2----- and in some cases depending on placement and how it can be seen might add value confirming originality....

 

[leeg]

I don't think a print should affect a coins technical grade. It does effect the "Eye Appeal" of a coin which is subjective in nature. I used to hate prints of any kind on a coin. I now own several with prints that are not too distracting.

[cointagious]

Years ago I had a hi grade better date dollar that was covered in old prints and toned to a point of being strangely attractive. I sold it for a healthy premium.

 

As far as effecting the grade? It didn't then and I don't believe it does today.

[michael]

igwt excellent example

 

this pattern you posted is superb and also the fingerprint is a non entity

 

as if it is not even there..................

 

wonderfully eye appealling coin

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

There is one series of coins where a fingerprint should never be allowed, irregardless of age or even denomination and that is on any sort of PROOF coinage.

 

When I see a fingerprint on a proof specimen, it immediately conveys to me mishandling. Someone without prior knowledge about how to handle a coin has picked up this coin and left behind on the pristine surfaces, remnants of their own ignorance.

 

The latent print has taken away from the rigors of the time consuming method of manufacture. The “eye appeal” the coin once possessed is now forever removed and should be automatically lowered in grade because of this mishandling. I don’ care if the print is on the devices, fields, of combination of both, it’s just down right disappointing to see.

 

It should also not matter if the coin is a ultra rare proof or a recently broke out modern proof. A thumb print means it has been mishandled and if allowed to reside on the surface, it might even degrade the coin down to a level of being impaired.

 

No high marks for finger printed up proofs.

 

Just my thoughts.

[SkyMan]

As Einstein would say, "It's all relative".

[wayneherndon]

I purchased a nice looking 1928 Lincoln Cent in PCGS MS 67 awhile back. A few weeks later, I noticed a big ugly fingerprint had appeared (apparently put there by the grading service or the submitter). I sent it back to PCGS under their grade guarantee and it downgraded to a 64.

 

WH

[bsshog40]

I purchased a nice looking 1928 Lincoln Cent in PCGS MS 67 awhile back. A few weeks later, I noticed a big ugly fingerprint had appeared (apparently put there by the grading service or the submitter). I sent it back to PCGS under their grade guarantee and it downgraded to a 64.

 

WH

 

that don't sound right?

[conqueror]

I was thinking the samething

[MarkFeld]

I purchased a nice looking 1928 Lincoln Cent in PCGS MS 67 awhile back. A few weeks later, I noticed a big ugly fingerprint had appeared (apparently put there by the grading service or the submitter). I sent it back to PCGS under their grade guarantee and it downgraded to a 64.

 

WH

 

that don't sound right?

Why doesn't that sound right? PCGS down-graded the coin due to a print, and presumably paid a fair price to the submitter to either buy the coin or make up for the difference in value between the original grade and the new grade. It sure sounds right to me.

[conqueror]

That fingerprint or thumbprint may not be obvious at first it may not show up for month or even years. but when it does appear it may be impossible to remove and causing damage to the surface of the coin. are you saying this is the reason why Pcgs would downgrade 3points for otherwise a gem coin.

[MarkFeld]

That fingerprint or thumbprint may not be obvious at first it may not show up for month or even years. but when it does appear it may be impossible to remove and causing damage to the surface of the coin. are you saying this is the reason why Pcgs would downgrade 3points for otherwise a gem coin.

Yes, I can easily see/understand a 3 point down-grade for a print on what was previously an MS67RD copper coin.

[MikeKing]

That fingerprint or thumbprint may not be obvious at first it may not show up for month or even years. but when it does appear it may be impossible to remove and causing damage to the surface of the coin. are you saying this is the reason why Pcgs would downgrade 3points for otherwise a gem coin.

Yes, I can easily see/understand a 3 point down-grade for a print on what was previously an MS67RD copper coin.

 

I'd be interested in learning the reasoning behind this, technically that is. Thanks.

[MarkFeld]

That fingerprint or thumbprint may not be obvious at first it may not show up for month or even years. but when it does appear it may be impossible to remove and causing damage to the surface of the coin. are you saying this is the reason why Pcgs would downgrade 3points for otherwise a gem coin.

Yes, I can easily see/understand a 3 point down-grade for a print on what was previously an MS67RD copper coin.

 

I'd be interested in learning the reasoning behind this, technically that is. Thanks.

This is my opinion, but a print on a RD copper coin (which is otherwise superb) is far more distracting and more of a negative than one on a RB or BN example. Ditto for a print on a silver coin being mixed in with toning, as opposed to sticking out like a sore thumb on an otherwise nearly flawless coin. Some flaws merit a down-grade of a point or less, while others are far more significant. Each of us can evaluate and weigh flaws differently, however.

[bsshog40]

I purchased a nice looking 1928 Lincoln Cent in PCGS MS 67 awhile back. A few weeks later, I noticed a big ugly fingerprint had appeared (apparently put there by the grading service or the submitter). I sent it back to PCGS under their grade guarantee and it downgraded to a 64.

 

WH

 

that don't sound right?

Why doesn't that sound right? PCGS down-graded the coin due to a print, and presumably paid a fair price to the submitter to either buy the coin or make up for the difference in value between the original grade and the new grade. It sure sounds right to me.

 

Well the reason I said it didn't sound right is I didn't read anything about PCGS making the difference in grade value up to the submitter. It just stated re-submitted and it dropped 3 points. He did mention guarantee, but I presume he was compensated for this??

[MarkFeld]

I purchased a nice looking 1928 Lincoln Cent in PCGS MS 67 awhile back. A few weeks later, I noticed a big ugly fingerprint had appeared (apparently put there by the grading service or the submitter). I sent it back to PCGS under their grade guarantee and it downgraded to a 64.

 

WH

 

that don't sound right?

Why doesn't that sound right? PCGS down-graded the coin due to a print, and presumably paid a fair price to the submitter to either buy the coin or make up for the difference in value between the original grade and the new grade. It sure sounds right to me.

 

Well the reason I said it didn't sound right is I didn't read anything about PCGS making the difference in grade value up to the submitter. It just stated re-submitted and it dropped 3 points. He did mention guarantee, but I presume he was compensated for this??

I presume that you presume correctly. If not, the tone of the post on that subject would probably have been a bit different.

[bsshog40]

Okee dokee. thanks Mark!