Question about incorrect attributions

[okbustchaser]

Originally posted in thread on early half dollar posts where it was quickly lost among the beautiful coins.

 

 

Disclaimer: This is not my coin. The pic is stolen (borrowed without asking at least) from the seller. I did not buy this coin when offered although I would have if I could convince the seller that the attribution was wrong.

 

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This is the O-106, not the quite rare O-127. As a 106 it is worth somewhere around 150.00. Were it really the 127 it would be a low 4 figure coin. Someone got badly burned. So my question is...

 

Does an incorrect attribution come under the NGC grading guarantee?

 

By the way, here is a real 127. Same obverse die but mated with a different reverse.

[jtryka]

I think this may be the relevant portion of the guarantee as it relates to attributions:

 

"All U.S and World coins - including but not limited to Pattern coins, Varieties, Tokens and Medals, Mint Errors, American Colonials, Confederation coinage and Private and Territorial Gold - are guaranteed for grade and authenticity only."

 

To me this suggests that when a coin is certified with a variety, like an Overton number, they are only guaranteed for grade and authenticity, but that the actual variety is not guaranteed.

[James_OldeTowne]

I think this may be the relevant portion of the guarantee as it relates to attributions:

 

"All U.S and World coins - including but not limited to Pattern coins, Varieties, Tokens and Medals, Mint Errors, American Colonials, Confederation coinage and Private and Territorial Gold - are guaranteed for grade and authenticity only."

 

To me this suggests that when a coin is certified with a variety, like an Overton number, they are only guaranteed for grade and authenticity, but that the actual variety is not guaranteed.

Oh man, that is risky on NGC's part. I have seen at least one NGC 1836 Capped Bust half incorrectly attributed as "Reeded Edge" - obviously a huge price differential. If an unknowledgeable person bought that coin for the higher price and found out later it had been incorrectly attributed, I'd think it would lead to an ugly scenario.

 

I hope NGC chimes in on this!

 

By the way, Jeff, I sent you a package today .

[jtryka]

By the way, Jeff, I sent you a package today

 

Woo Hooo!!!! I love packages!!!

[JRocco]

Hey OKbustchaser,

Good question. I do not think that the major services will go onto that slippery slope. Who is really to say what a different die marriage is worth to different collectors. Variety guys like you and I see and know the difference, but if someone is a date collector or type collector???

I would think the better recourse here would be to try to return the piece to the seller who received the value in the marriage...in this case the incorrect value due to the incorrect stated marriage.

I guess this is a slippery slope for all.

I have an incorrectly attributed PCGS slabbed half, but in my case the difference was within 50-75 bucks so it didn't really matter.

[Conder101]

NGC does not guarantee attributions. Under the new PCGS guarantee that was revised after all the fuss MBT and I raised, they DO guarantee attributions. (Under the old guarantee they did not.)

[Mozin]

All you get when NGC attributes incorrectly, is a new holder with the correct label. The collector stands for the shipping both ways. Same thing with ANACS.

[Shortgapbob-migration]

Wow, as someone just learning to attribute Overtons, I must say that that the O-106 and O-127 are pretty close. They have the same obverse die, and the differences on the reverse appear to be very minimal from the pictures and descriptions.

[James_OldeTowne]

NGC does not guarantee attributions. Under the new PCGS guarantee that was revised after all the fuss MBT and I raised, they DO guarantee attributions. (Under the old guarantee they did not.)

It should be noted that in the past, PCGS hardly recognized even any Redbook attributions, much less Overton varieties and the like. My guess is that they had to begin guaranteeing attributions once they decided to enter the VAM market.

[farthing]

My one slabbed Conder token is from NGC and the attribution is wrong.

[Conder101]

It should be noted that in the past, PCGS hardly recognized even any Redbook attributions, much less Overton varieties and the like. My guess is that they had to begin guaranteeing attributions once they decided to enter the VAM market.

And even when they did recognize a redbook variety they often got it wrong. An they were in the VAM market for awhile before they changed their guarantee. (Frankly I was surprised to see it covered attributions.)

 

I haven't heard too much about their accuracy on their VAM attributions yet. (I think it is still just a limited number of VAM's that they will attribute.) And even if they do guarantee them you have the problem that varieties are a highly specialized market with no widely recognized guides to prices etc. This leaves you at PCGS's mercy if they do get an attribution wrong since THEY are the sole determiner of what the fair market value of what your variety coin was worth, not what you paid or the open market. So if they do not realize what your rare variety might really bring, you may not be allowed adaquate compensation. And the compensation level is at THEIR sole discretion.