Just when you thought your wallet was safe....

[carson city]

June 25th CoinWorld reports that a proposed 2008 High Relief Gold coin of the "Sun" and the 9 planets is currently pending before Congress. It would be the first HIGH RELIEF GOLD COIN since the 1922 Gold St. Gaudens. The catch to the program is that to be able to purchase the High Relief "Sun" coin you must be signed up for the preceeding 9 one-ounce planet coins. Then you will be permitted to purchase Sun High Relief. Expected cost of set in Proof only condition approx. 10 thousand $. Where does the line form ? Limit of 50K sets !

 

One can only wonder if an order limit of 10 sets per household will be enacted !

[MunkyMan95]

I would be interested in a High Relief coin, but that's a racket!

[awb]

Should we tell them that we only have 8 planets, with Pluto's recent demotion?

[jtryka]

I'd be interested in a high relief coin, but I want more than just the sun, I want Liberty, the torch, the capitol building and the flying eagle on the reverse too! Why not a high relief Saint? Some stupid coins commemorating the planets, just what we need...

[TomB]

I would think they would make the planets in silver and the sun in gold, which should reduce the price of the set substantially since the silver dollars typically sell for $40 or so from the US Mint.

[WinstonWare]

9 one-ounce planet coins

 

It sounds like the scale may be a bit off

[DC Dawg]

The bill is H.R. 2500, NASA and JPL 50th Anniversary Commemorative Coin Act, introduced by Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX) and John Culberson (R-TX). The bill was introduced on May 24, 2007 and referred to the House Committee on Financial Services. Barney Frank (D-MA) is the chairman of that committee. Under House rules, a bill must have 290 signatures, two-thirds of the House, for the bill to be considered. It has a long way to go.

 

For those who want to cheer from the sidelines, here's the summary of the specifications:

 

Gold Coin:

• 1 troy ounce of find gold, weigh 33.931 grams, and have a diameter of 32.7 millimeters
• Face value of $50, year 2008, inscriptions of the words 'Liberty', 'In God We Trust', 'United States of America', and 'E Pluribus Unum'
• 50,000 striking limit
• Obverse design: Image of the Sun
• "shall bear a design emblematic of the sacrifice of the United States astronauts who lost their lives in the line of duty over the course of the space program."
• "The design and inscriptions on the obverse and reverse of the $50 coins issued under this Act shall be in high relief."
• $50 surcharge
• Mint may make bronze duplicates of the gold coin

 

Silver Coins:

• 90 percent silver and 10 percent copper, weigh 26.73 grams, and have a diameter of 1.500 inches
• Face value $1, year 2008, inscriptions of the words 'Liberty', 'In God We Trust', 'United States of America', and 'E Pluribus Unum'
• 9 coins, 300,000 striking limit for each coin
• Obverse design: 9 coins, one for each planet
• Reverse Design: "different designs each of which shall be emblematic of discoveries and missions of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory to the planet depicted on the obverse of the coin" with the following requirements:
• EARTH COIN- The reverse of the $1 coins issued under this Act which bear an image of the Earth on the obverse shall bear images emblematic of, and honoring, the discoveries and missions of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the Mercury, Gemini and Space Shuttle missions and other manned Earth-orbiting missions, and the Apollo missions to the Moon.
• JUPITER COIN- The reverse of the $1 coins issued under this Act which bear an image of the planet Jupiter on the obverse shall include a scientifically accurate depiction of the Galilean moon Europa and depict both a past and future mission to Europa.
• SATURN COIN- The reverse of the $1 coins issued under this Act which bear an image of the planet Saturn on the obverse shall include a scientifically accurate depiction of the moon Titan and depict both a past and a future mission to Titan.
• PLUTO (AND OTHER DWARF PLANETS) COIN- The reverse of the $1 coins issued under this Act which bear an image of the planet Pluto on the obverse shall include a design that is emblematic of telescopic exploration of deep space by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the ongoing search for Earth-like planets orbiting other stars.
• $10 surcharge

 

Surcharges to be distributed as follows:

• $4 million to the NASA Family Assistance Fund
• $1 million to The Dr. Ronald E. McNair Educational (D.R.E.M.E.) Science Literacy Foundation
• The Dorothy Jemison Foundation for Excellence
• Remaining funds: Save America's Treasures at the National Trust for Historic Preservation

 

That's our Washington report. Now back to our regular numismatic discussions!

 

Scott

[Dwaine]

Great info Scott. I have always been interested in the space program so if this is passed I will probably purchase these coins.

[RUSS BEGA]

intresting program but way to expensiove and confusing

[SkyMan]

Thanks for all the info Scott.

 

While I am all for coins depicting Solar exploration by NASA and JPL those designs sound awfully cramped. Besides which, some of those missions are ESA aided (European Space Agency), so I am less than thrilled with that aspect of it.

[ant]

not on coin subject but what about that planet that was found that is very close to our planets style? air,water....... its 20yrs away from us but will we have a earth 2 someday? and will cell phones work on said planet to planet

 

i hope we dont get a gold coin with just a planet on it. now puting different planets in the back ground like ikes or sba would be kinda kool i think. have say the liberty from the gaudens design standing on the moon or mars would be a kool high releif to have

 

(im just picturing it in my head )

[WoodenJefferson]

I want to know what's going to be on the reverse of 7th planet, Uranus?

 

Thanks Scott

[stckplunge]

not on coin subject but what about that planet that was found that is very close to our planets style? air,water....... its 20yrs away from us but will we have a earth 2 someday? and will cell phones work on said planet to planet

 

Here is how that cell phone conversation will go:

 

Jeff (me) says: "Hello fellow habitable zone members"......

 

.....20yrs later the response "Hello to you too"

 

(I am of course dead since it took 20 years for my signal to get there and 20 years for the reply back. Add into the the 30 minutes it took to check their messages because of course the call went directly to their voicemail).

[SkyMan]

I want to know what's going to be on the reverse of 7th planet, Uranus?

 

Thanks Scott

 

Actually the reverse of the planet Uranus is kind of an interesting concept. While most planets are tilted a little (hence our seasons on the Earth), Uranus is tilted all the way over, e.g. ~90 degrees off, so it is "resting on it's side". It's theorized that a big comet or something whacked it many years ago knocking it "over".

[ant]

not on coin subject but what about that planet that was found that is very close to our planets style? air,water....... its 20yrs away from us but will we have a earth 2 someday? and will cell phones work on said planet to planet

 

Here is how that cell phone conversation will go:

 

Jeff (me) says: "Hello fellow habitable zone members"......

 

.....20yrs later the response "Hello to you too"

 

(I am of course dead since it took 20 years for my signal to get there and 20 years for the reply back. Add into the the 30 minutes it took to check their messages because of course the call went directly to their voicemail).

 

[Houston Investor]

What about Titan, moon of Saturn and its lakes of liquid methane? A nice day there is minus 200F. Now I know why Exxon stock is going up .

 

I think we should have some half dollar coins for some of the major moons of the solar system. Then a complete set of all of it in 70 for your registry.

[astrostu]

Work and play should not mix!! My career should not encroach on my hobby. Though I do hope that if it happens there's only one gold so that I could actually buy 'em.

 

On a different note, there are a few problems with Scott's list, which I'm assuming he got straight from the proposed legisltaiton ... so there are a few problems with the legislation (quoted below) in my never-humble opinion.

 

What "image" of the sun will they use? Just a smooth circle? Rays? Or something that actually depicts science, with flares, prominences, and grains on the surface ... making it an incredibly busy coin. Or maybe it will just look like this:

 

Earth's proposed coin sounds busy as all spoon. You're supposed to put in the planet, moon, four MAJOR space programs, and discoveries of them? That's a set of encyclopedia, not one side of a coin!

 

A "scientifically accurate depiction of ... Europa," is ridiculous. The relief of its cracks is less than the relief of the markings of a black Sharpie marker on a billiard ball. And there are so many of them that anything with lines all over it would look accurate. And what's the coins supposed to feature? Jupiter or Europa? And why Europa? It's just as valid a moon as Ganymede, Callisto, or Io, and it's less interesting except to the astrobiologists ... whose program got cut in half by the recent NASA budget cuts. Oh, and there hasn't been a past mission to Europa (Galileo was to Jupiter, the coin this is SUPPOSED to be, and the moonS). And the future Europa orbiter has yet to be selected because Congress mandated it then cancelled it then said it had to go in for normal selection channels.

 

A scientificially accurate depiction of Titan would be a smooth disk since that's ALL we can see in visible light. It's only in a few recently discovered IR bands and RADAR that we can actually get some idea of surface features. So a disk with blobs? Big-whoop. And the lander was all ESA, not NASA. And there are no real plans or proposals for a future mission.

 

If this is supposed to be solar system, the Pluto coin is not the place for "telescopic exploration of deep space," which is basically ALL OTHER ASTRONOMY, and "ongoing search for Earth-like planets orbiting other stars" (a) falls under that category, too, and (b) is also a whole 'nother text book.

 

Forgive my non-labeled rant, you may now return to your regularly scheduled browsing.

 

 

Silver Coins:

• 90 percent silver and 10 percent copper, weigh 26.73 grams, and have a diameter of 1.500 inches
• Face value $1, year 2008, inscriptions of the words 'Liberty', 'In God We Trust', 'United States of America', and 'E Pluribus Unum'
• 9 coins, 300,000 striking limit for each coin
• Obverse design: 9 coins, one for each planet
• Reverse Design: "different designs each of which shall be emblematic of discoveries and missions of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory to the planet depicted on the obverse of the coin" with the following requirements:
• EARTH COIN- The reverse of the $1 coins issued under this Act which bear an image of the Earth on the obverse shall bear images emblematic of, and honoring, the discoveries and missions of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the Mercury, Gemini and Space Shuttle missions and other manned Earth-orbiting missions, and the Apollo missions to the Moon.
• JUPITER COIN- The reverse of the $1 coins issued under this Act which bear an image of the planet Jupiter on the obverse shall include a scientifically accurate depiction of the Galilean moon Europa and depict both a past and future mission to Europa.
• SATURN COIN- The reverse of the $1 coins issued under this Act which bear an image of the planet Saturn on the obverse shall include a scientifically accurate depiction of the moon Titan and depict both a past and a future mission to Titan.
• PLUTO (AND OTHER DWARF PLANETS) COIN- The reverse of the $1 coins issued under this Act which bear an image of the planet Pluto on the obverse shall include a design that is emblematic of telescopic exploration of deep space by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the ongoing search for Earth-like planets orbiting other stars.
• $10 surcharge

[DC Dawg]

On a different note, there are a few problems with Scott's list, which I'm assuming he got straight from the proposed legisltaiton ... so there are a few problems with the legislation (quoted below) in my never-humble opinion.

The list is directly from the text of bill and does not reflect my opinions.

 

One thing you will have to realize, congress pretends it has good taste and thinks they know what's best for us. We know neither are true.

 

Before any coin design is used, the Mint commissions the work, selects candidate designs, and submits them to the Citizens Coin Advisory Committee. The CCAC comments on designs, asks for changes, etc. Once CCAC narrows down the selection, the designs are sent to the Committee of Fine Arts for approval. CFA can also make changes that are sent to the CCAC and resent to the CFA. The CFA makes the final determination and determine whether the design is compliant with the law.

 

And with all this, we still get some hideous designs!

 

Scott

[Texast-migration]

First, I thought Pluto got kicked out by the science community dropping us down to 8 planets, and what about a coin that would show all the planets in their orbit around the Sun? and if there was a die chip, would it be considered an asteroid, comet or meteor?

[Mirrored Morgan]

Sounds like a coin I would love to have in my collection. It has been 100 years since the USmint produced a Gold High Relief Coin, it's about time they did.

[stckplunge]

... and if there was a die chip, would it be considered an asteroid, comet or meteor?

 

Milk spotting = supernova. and like a good supernova, milk spotting is always a surprise!

 

Wait, milk spotting looks a bit more like a nice tightly packed globular cluster!

 

Jeff

[WoodenJefferson]

On the earth coin, instead of a ordinary rim or denticles, I’d like to see a fluorescent ring surrounding the perimeter, commemorating the discovery of Van Allen Radiation Belt.

 

Dr.James Van Allen,

Explorer I mission

January 31, 1958

 

Of course, this may cause some problems down the road, but it’s nothing Congress can’t overcome.

 

[BillJones]

Too many coins ... too little money

 

I'm sick and tired of all this *spoon* from the mint. This barrage of “stuff to sell” coins is having the opposite affect on me. I have not ordered a single item from the mint this year, which is the first time I could have said that in over 30 years. I’m sick of this stuff.

 

Didn’t the government learn anything from the failure of the Atlanta Olympic coin program? This is overload, I’m just totally turned off.

[physics-fan3.14]

In concept, it sounds cool. But that is a lot of coins. I really think they should limit it to a couple of coins. Or even better: circulating commemorative half dollars. We have got to get people interested in using them, for some reason or another. And it feels all alone, sandwiched between the circulating commemorative quarters and the circulating commemorative dollars.

[WoodenJefferson]

 

 

Bill, snippettes from Quarterly Financial Report of the United States Mint

Commemorative Coin Program...just a few of the reasons, seems top be a lucrative venture for the US Mint.

 

sales of over 234,000 coins were realized generating revenues of nearly $7.3 million. Estimated profits of $803,308 exceed potential unrecovered expenses of $303,398. Cost of goods sold totaled $2,194,201 million. Selling, general & administrative expenses equaled $2,010,758.

 

the program generated revenues of nearly $9 million and reported an estimated profit of approximately $1.6 million.

 

estimated profits of over $1.6 million exceed estimated unrecovered expenses of $114,533. Surcharge payments totaling $2.5 million were divided equally between

 

The ball will keep rolling as long as there are buyers to keep pushing.

[BillJones]

$9 million in revenue and $1.6 million in net income?

 

Numbers like that get rounded off when Congress passes a spending bill. When people look at the budget deficit or the national debt, those numbers don’t mean anything. In government parlances, that's chump change. It’s a shame that they are screwing up our hobby with such small amounts of money.

[Conder101]

what about a coin that would show all the planets in their orbit around the Sun? and if there was a die chip, would it be considered an asteroid, comet or meteor?

Asteroid.

 

It is only a meteor if it is passing through the Earth's atmosphere (after it hits the Earth it's a meteorite, before it enters the atmosphere it's a near Earth asteroid.) To be a comet it has to have ice and frozen gases. Once the ice and gases are gone then the rock that's left is just another asteroid.

[DC Dawg]

I'm sick and tired of all this *spoon* from the mint. This barrage of “stuff to sell” coins is having the opposite affect on me. I have not ordered a single item from the mint this year, which is the first time I could have said that in over 30 years. I’m sick of this stuff.

Then talk with your representative because if congress doesn't t pass the bill, the Mint does not strike the coin. Also, as I said above, just because the bill is introduced does not mean it will get a hearing. House rules require signatures of 290, or two-thirds of the members to be co-sponsors. So far, this bill has TWO co-sponsors. There are 288 to go!

 

Didn’t the government learn anything from the failure of the Atlanta Olympic coin program? This is overload, I’m just totally turned off.

For every "failure" there are at least two successes. This is why the Mint can keep striking cents and nickels without suffering significant losses!

 

Scott

[carson city]

If the recently sold-out Spouse Gold coins are any indication, this series will likewise be a complete success ! Where does the line form ?

[WoodenJefferson]

$9 million in revenue and $1.6 million in net income?

 

Numbers like that get rounded off when Congress passes a spending bill. When people look at the budget deficit or the national debt, those numbers don’t mean anything. In government parlances, that's chump change. It’s a shame that they are screwing up our hobby with such small amounts of money.

 

Bill,

 

As long as the US Mint keeps the numbers in the black on the Quarterly Fiscal Reports on all these “non-circulating” coins/bullion, the following will happen:

 

a. G.A.O. will look elsewhere

b. Congress will keep approving new legislation

c. Senate will be pleased and form yet more sub-committees to justify existence

d. the Mints gets to keep key (100k+ annual salary) personnel

e. initial speculators will reap huge profits from all the hype/rage/fad, causing f.

f. “Sorry…Sold Out” sign hanging on the gate in front of the Mint, causing g.

g. supply/demand issues, causing h.

h. more speculation by secondary marketers/sellers, causing i

i. risk takers hoping they won’t be the one holding the hot potato, causing j.

j. infinitude

 

A chain reaction of events is triggered, just like Teller lamenting to Oppenheimer that the atmosphere might explode and burn off with the detonation of the very first “Atomic Bomb”…there will always be risk takers no matter the consequence.