what am eye not seeing!

[ant]

here is the seated that got bbed for rev imp cleaned. im not seeing anything. am i being blind?

 

 

 

sorry pics a lil big i tried to shrink and this is all i could do

[bsshog40]

Pics are good size Ant. I'm not seeing anything jump out at me. May have something to do with the wierd coloring.

[carson city]

Good Luck finding the answer. This is a question for the Experts at PCGS or NGC whomever BB it. This Forum consists of mainly self proclaimed Experts.

[MarkFeld]

Good Luck finding the answer. This is a question for the Experts at PCGS or NGC whomever BB it. This Forum consists of mainly self proclaimed Experts.

Ant, cleaning is often detectable by tilting and rotating a coin under good light, as opposed to looking at it head-on. You might try that, if you haven't already done so. The coin looks off/unoriginal to me, though I can't point to conclusive proof of a cleaning from the images. Grading companies frequently make mistakes, but if given a choice, I'd go with their sight-seen conclusion over that which we would have to come up with based upon an image.

 

Carson city, I don't recall posts in which most, much less, even a few of the forum members here have proclaimed themselves experts. If "this Forum consists of mainly self proclaimed Experts" than, there should be plenty such posts for you to point out to us. Please do so or stop making overly broad, false allegations against others.

[WinstonWare]

Good Luck finding the answer. This is a question for the Experts at PCGS or NGC whomever BB it. This Forum consists of mainly self proclaimed Experts.

 

What!? I’m fairly new to collecting myself but there are many knowledgeable folks here that take time out of their day to help others in their coin collecting endeavors. I’m not sure why you are belittling their contributions.

 

Ant, I can’t see any hairlines in these pictures but I can say that patchy toning would concern me. I actually would have liked to see the larger pics, particularly of the reverse. We can just tell Pendragon not to look at this thread

[MAULEMALL]

Good Luck finding the answer. This is a question for the Experts at PCGS or NGC whomever BB it. This Forum consists of mainly self proclaimed Experts.

 

Carson city, I don't recall posts in which most, much less, even a few of the forum members here have proclaimed themselves experts. If "this Forum consists of mainly self proclaimed Experts" than, there should be plenty such posts for you to point out to us. Please do so or stop making overly broad, false allegations against others.

CC we are a group that has similar intrests In only one aspect of our lives..

There ARE some who I consider experts but they are humble and would Never put it out there..It is up to you to ascertain who is who...It is also up to you how you are recieved...

[MarkFeld]

Ant, here's something else to try in order to look for the cleaning if you haven't yet - instead of looking at the coin close-up and with a magnifier, hold it several inches away, under different types of light (including natural sunlight) and tilt and rotate it.

 

Sometimes we miss things by looking too closely/carefully. For example, I have seen people use a microscope to look for cleaning or other flaws, not see it/them and then someone else look at the coin with their naked eye and finds the flaw in a second or two. It's often about technique in examining a coin.

[halfpint]

 

 

i agree with you mark!

[carson city]

It seems to me, as a non-expert in the area of coin cleaning, the reason your coin was BB'd is in the eye of the TPG service expert. As MF stated, "grading companies frequently make mistakes". If so, send it back to the original grading service or try your luck with another service. The lack of any definative reasons from the NGC Forum members will have little or no impact on any subsequent TPG decisions. Again, good luck !

[MarkFeld]

It seems to me, as a non-expert in the area of coin cleaning, the reason your coin was BB'd is in the eye of the TPG service expert. As MF stated, "grading companies frequently make mistakes". If so, send it back to the original grading service or try your luck with another service. The lack of any definative reasons from the NGC Forum members will have little or no impact on any subsequent TPG decisions. Again, good luck !

Ant, if you don't see cleaning, rather than spending additional money with a grading company, you might try showing it to a few collectors or dealers at a shop or a show. Grading companies frequently make mistakes, but sight-unseen, I'd still go with their sight-seen assessment over ours from an image.

 

Carson city, since in your most recent post to this thread, you ignored my post below, I will take that to mean you can't back up your comment, but please feel free to show us otherwise:

 

Carson city, I don't recall posts in which most, much less, even a few of the forum members here have proclaimed themselves experts. If "this Forum consists of mainly self proclaimed Experts" than, there should be plenty such posts for you to point out to us. Please do so or stop making overly broad, false allegations against others.

[TomB]

In my opinion the images appear to be a scan, which can be terribly difficult to read correctly. The only thing I can add is that the color does appear strange and that the wide swath of lighter color traveling diagonally on the reverse from about 10:00 to 5:00 may be why the coin was ultimately bagged.

[carson city]

Ant, after you "try showing your coin to a few collectors and dealers(knowledgeable, I presume) and even assuming they all agree the coin should not be BB'd, you again are back to square one, either resubmit it to the same or different TPG service. Good Luck.

[WoodenJefferson]

Good Luck finding the answer. This is a question for the Experts at PCGS or NGC whomever BB it. This Forum consists of mainly self proclaimed Experts.

 

Pretty broad spectrum of use there by including every single person that either starts or adds to a post on this Forum that they are nothing more than a so-called “self proclaimed expert” in the field of Numismatics.

 

If this is a true and accurate statement, then would not you yourself fall into this category, along with the rest of us…am I right?

 

I would like to think that there are those who have the confidence and the skills necessary to get the basics across to those who are asking for opinions.

 

There are also the advanced collectors/dealers who post here that have handled coins for many years and posses the skills to offer solid advice.

 

Do not sell any of these talented people short…for it may come back to haunt your Numismatic endeavors.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ant...yes, as TomB has noted, there is a color change on the reverse that appears to bi-sect the coin. Now whether or not this was one of the indicators to the graders is pure speculation but could be a good starting point to unbderstand why it was returned to you un-gradeable.

 

We ALL have to start somewhere....the learning curve is by far greater now days than what it used to be. Hang in there ant...keep asking questions.

[carson city]

Correct, everyone wants to be a big fish in a small pond---Herbert Marsh. And as for "selling talented people short", It is not for me to point out the shortcomings of others, only to obseve them" Danny DeVito

[WoodenJefferson]

WoodenJefferson

[MAULEMALL]

In my opinion the images appear to be a scan, which can be terribly difficult to read correctly. The only thing I can add is that the color does appear strange and that the wide swath of lighter color traveling diagonally on the reverse from about 10:00 to 5:00 may be why the coin was ultimately bagged.

I think Tom is right on the money...I have personally experianced a BB for Staining from a previous cleaning...If you post this in the ASK NCS Or better known as the Coin Conservation Click Here area of the forum they may be able to help...

[WoodenJefferson]

In my opinion the images appear to be a scan, which can be terribly difficult to read correctly. The only thing I can add is that the color does appear strange and that the wide swath of lighter color traveling diagonally on the reverse from about 10:00 to 5:00 may be why the coin was ultimately bagged.

I think Tom is right on the money...I have personally experianced a BB for Staining from a previous cleaning...If you post this in the ASK NCS Or better known as the Coin Conservation Click Here area of the forum they may be able to help...

 

Excellent advice....and a good lead by a Forum member.

[pendragon1998]

In my opinion the images appear to be a scan, which can be terribly difficult to read correctly. The only thing I can add is that the color does appear strange and that the wide swath of lighter color traveling diagonally on the reverse from about 10:00 to 5:00 may be why the coin was ultimately bagged.

I think Tom is right on the money...I have personally experianced a BB for Staining from a previous cleaning...If you post this in the ASK NCS Or better known as the Coin Conservation Click Here area of the forum they may be able to help...

 

You know, I was wondering if that light line might have been due to old tape. This barber half was scotch-taped into an old cardboard holder (across the reverse). Maybe not, but the image below might be of interest to others, in any case.

 

[MikeKing]

It seems to me, as a non-expert in the area of coin cleaning, the reason your coin was BB'd is in the eye of the TPG service expert. As MF stated, "grading companies frequently make mistakes". If so, send it back to the original grading service or try your luck with another service. The lack of any definative reasons from the NGC Forum members will have little or no impact on any subsequent TPG decisions. Again, good luck !

 

I'm a self proclaimed expert, I'm an expert in knowing I don't know much of anything. But if ant discussed his coin with other collectors, which is what this hobby is all about (and not the TPGs), he'll learn things a TPG can never teach him. Since TPGs (and I'm talking about the three top tier TPG's) do often make mistakes, holder AT coins, holder environmentally damaged coins, holder coins with modified surfaces and holder improperly cleaned coins...as well as reject all the above as well, it would behoove ant to discuss his coin with his fellow collectors, self proclaimed experts or otherwise, because that is where the meat of the hobby really is. A TPG will teach you nothing about a coin.

 

edited to add: and if a TPG finally grades it, and if indeed it is a harshly cleaned or environmentally damaged coin, that doesn't change the fact that it's a harshly cleaned coin and ant would be better off without it, holdered or otherwise.

[ant]

the coin looks just like it does in photos ive gone through the tilting and rotation thing and just cant see cleaning.the splotches did catch my attention but the obv looks as bad as the rev so i dont know why they said just rev cleaned.

[ant]

It seems to me, as a non-expert in the area of coin cleaning, the reason your coin was BB'd is in the eye of the TPG service expert. As MF stated, "grading companies frequently make mistakes". If so, send it back to the original grading service or try your luck with another service. The lack of any definative reasons from the NGC Forum members will have little or no impact on any subsequent TPG decisions. Again, good luck !

 

I'm a self proclaimed expert, I'm an expert in knowing I don't know much of anything. But if ant discussed his coin with other collectors, which is what this hobby is all about (and not the TPGs), he'll learn things a TPG can never teach him. Since TPGs (and I'm talking about the three top tier TPG's) do often make mistakes, holder AT coins, holder environmentally damaged coins, holder coins with modified surfaces and holder improperly cleaned coins...as well as reject all the above as well, it would behoove ant to discuss his coin with his fellow collectors, self proclaimed experts or otherwise, because that is where the meat of the hobby really is. A TPG will teach you nothing about a coin.

 

edited to add: and if a TPG finally grades it, and if indeed it is a harshly cleaned or environmentally damaged coin, that doesn't change the fact that it's a harshly cleaned coin and ant would be better off without it, holdered or otherwise.

 

very well said!

 

also if every1 new how to grade then the tpgs would not get to keep the free(somewhat free) money they get for bbed coins. also another reason they dont do just a small fee for bbed coins.

 

and for asking questions here we learn and save money. everytime i ask a question i learn 1 more thing which is very important. many of the ppl here have been collecting a short time like me, but there are far more that have 5-15+ yrs under there belt and pro or joe they all help with there thaughts and learning adventures there r some ppl here that i would hire my dang self due to there ability to see the smallest things even on scans and pics.

 

what gets me half the tyme is that they can look at pictires and tell what u r using for light or even if it is a scan that is a skill in it self and if they can see that then they can see things i kant

so thanks to all for helping us!

[carson city]

Very well said---also if every 1 (sic)new how to grade then tpgs would not get to keep the free(somewhat free) money they get for bbed coins. also another reason they dont do just a small fee for bbed coins.

 

Retorical question: If one does not want to accept the grade assigned by the TPG service or in the case of BB coins, lack of grade, why have the coin(s) graded in the first place ?

[ant]

Very well said---also if every 1 (sic)new how to grade then tpgs would not get to keep the free(somewhat free) money they get for bbed coins. also another reason they dont do just a small fee for bbed coins.

 

Retorical question: If one does not want to accept the grade assigned by the TPG service or in the case of BB coins, lack of grade, why have the coin(s) graded in the first place ?