Aaaarrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SkyMan]

!!! Do TPG's ever drive you crazy? I JUST got in the mail a 1958-P Franklin I won at the recent Goldberg auction. It is graded NGC MS66FBL. I bid on it, sight unseen, a strong but not outrageous price for a coin of that date/mm/condition (it got just about to the price limit beyond which I won't bid on a coin unless I've seen it in hand). '58-P's are sorta' tough to find FBL, so I wasn't so much worried about the technical grade as the bell lines. However NGC is MUCH stricter than PCGS for FBL, so it being an NGC coin that's why I bid the way I did. The auction images showed some issues with the lower bell lines, but depending on how you rotate a coin for imaging can definitely affect how the bell lines look, so I trusted the NGC grade. Well I got the coin in hand and there are no lower bell lines directly to the left of the crack. It p1sses me off because the coin is otherwise a nice attractive coin. It does have one reedmark hit about 11 o'clock to Ben's eye, but other than that it is quite clean. "Pass and Stow" shows up well. It has good colors and significant luster underneath the colors. Some of you might have seen the '49-D I posted yesterday that NGC twice has refused to FBL, and look at the lines on it, 1949-D and compare it to these. Oh well, live and learn. If the auction picture shows issues with the lines, than assume there are issues with the lines.

 

Anyhow, here's the 1958-P, (Goldberg images). I believe the images underrepresent the coin, particularly the luster on the obverse.

 

[WinstonWare]

I don’t know enough about Franklins or the FBL designation to comment on that, but I do feel for you buddy

[IGWT]

Strong strikes are important to me, but I can't get excited about the FBL designation (or other srike designations). I know that the difference in price between FBL and non-FBL coins of the same grade can be huge. Is that the case for this year/mintmark?

[bsshog40]

Maybe you can check on a re-grade/designation and guarantee on this Sky

[rbrown4]

Well I know from experience that Sy is quite the "perfectionist". In that I mean that he truly does try to examine, evaluate and offer his opinion on a coin with the utmost professionalism, experience and truth. IIn this case, if his fair, impartial and professional opinion of this coin is different than that of the current TPG that has assigned a grade, I would go with Sy, and either wait to resubmit, resubmit to another source or just sit back and know what you know.

[rrantique]

Well I know from experience that Sy is quite the "perfectionist". In that I mean that he truly does try to examine, evaluate and offer his opinion on a coin with the utmost professionalism, experience and truth. IIn this case, if his fair, impartial and professional opinion of this coin is different than that of the current TPG that has assigned a grade, I would go with Sy, and either wait to resubmit, resubmit to another source or just sit back and know what you know.

 

I agree Rey, it's just a piece of plastic otherwise.

[SkyMan]

Strong strikes are important to me, but I can't get excited about the FBL designation (or other srike designations). I know that the difference in price between FBL and non-FBL coins of the same grade can be huge. Is that the case for this year/mintmark?

 

It's over double the difference.

[James_OldeTowne]

This is a heavily patinated coin, and you must be very careful examining these for FBL. The same is true of full-head and full-split-bands. Thick patination can easily mask tiny, sharp details, and I wonder if that might not be the case here?

[TJ'S Coins]

Sky, this is a very attractive 1958-P and I agree that it is a more difficult date and mint mark to find a nice FBL coin.

 

I remember reading that it is the top three lines that are used for FBL designation, not the bottom two. Just as it is the middle band that determines FSB on the Mercury Dime. Can anyone verify if this is correct or not?

 

Sky, I trust your judgment on this coin simply because you have it in hand, plus you have an impeccable reputation and a great eye for coins as demonstrated by the very attractive ones you routinely post. I'm sorry that this coin was not what you thought and hoped it would be by the designation.

[physics-fan3.14]

TJ, at PCGS they only use the bottom set of lines to determine FBL, at NGC they use both sets of lines. That is one reason that NGC FBLs are so much scarcer and higher demand (and much higher quality).

 

Sky, that is a gorgeous coin. Is it possible to get a closer picture of the bell lines. I see what you are talking about, but it is too small for me to really make up my mind. Remember, though, P mint coins often have weaker bell lines, especially the late 50s because the master die was wearing out. NGC might have given it a little slack because of this. The rest of the lines look very good. I know my 58-P FBL is kind of weak, but FBL for the date.