True Grade of this 1883-S Morgan Dollar "MS67"

[kmax00-migration]

Hi Everyone,

 

I just joined the group today after spending almost all weekend reading about coin collecting. I'm addicted... and I know I just learned my first lesson in the new age of coin collecting - you get what you pay for (I'm even hoping for that!).

 

I was on EBAY and I found an 1883-S MS67 Morgan Dollar selling for $600 at the time with about 8 bids, so I got in on the action and ended up winning it for $650. I knew it wasn't a 67 because everything that is properly graded and certified is at least in the vicinity of the true price. I'll be submiting it to NGC next week.

 

VF EF AU 60 62 63 64 65 66 67

1883-S 23 45 175 500 1,350 2,500 4,800 26,000 90,000 200,000

 

I just wanted to know if anyone could give their opinion on if the coin I bought is at least MS60 by their estimation.

 

Thanks for your time and I hope to start making wiser desicions in the future.

 

Kent

 

1883-S EBAY Listing

[jgrinz]

Welcome -

 

Too bad about you first purchase - This coin looks like it will get body bagged for cleaning and scratches and will not grade.

 

ONLY buy NGC/PCGS/ANACS coins

[RUSS BEGA]

it looks like it may have been dipped a few times. i didnt see too many signs of an abrasive cleaning. any way welcome to the groups! dont let this experience spoil numismatics forever, we've all done something like this and learned from it

[123cents]

Welcome to the forum Kent. My,my. I think you might have just bought yourself a expensive lesson. The seller doesn't have a return policy so you are probably stuck with the coin. The coin looks like it has scratches in the fields which would probably get you a bodybag. Lets see what everyone else thinks.

[CurrierVentures]

Hi Everyone,

 

I just joined the group today after spending almost all weekend reading about coin collecting. I'm addicted... and I know I just learned my first lesson in the new age of coin collecting - you get what you pay for (I'm even hoping for that!).

 

I was on EBAY and I found an 1883-S MS67 Morgan Dollar selling for $600 at the time with about 8 bids, so I got in on the action and ended up winning it for $650. I knew it wasn't a 67 because everything that is properly graded and certified is at least in the vicinity of the true price. I'll be submiting it to NGC next week.

 

VF EF AU 60 62 63 64 65 66 67

1883-S 23 45 175 500 1,350 2,500 4,800 26,000 90,000 200,000

 

I just wanted to know if anyone could give their opinion on if the coin I bought is at least MS60 by their estimation.

 

Thanks for your time and I hope to start making wiser desicions in the future.

 

Kent

 

1883-S EBAY Listing

 

http://NumisGuard.com - join the effort to protect collectors against these types of questionable offerings.

[WinstonWare]

ONLY buy NGC/PCGS/ANACS coins

 

Better yet – learn to grade yourself. Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I agree with the others – this coin is a dog.

[James_OldeTowne]

First of all, Welcome to our friendly little neighborhood!

 

To be honest, that coin on eBay does not even look uncirculated, much less "MS-67". I would guess AU-55 is the real grade, and I would value it at $150.

 

It's possible the images make the coin look worse than it really is.

[kmax00-migration]

Thanks everyone - I didn't expect to win the bid and after 3 hours of being the high bidder no one jumped on the grenade for me...

 

This will not turn me off at all to coin collecting - I'll bite the bullet and start making wise decisions instead of getting caught up in the moment like a giddy little girl.

[James_OldeTowne]

If you can, I would strongly urge you NOT to pay for the coin, even if it means getting kicked off of eBay! It is just completely the wrong way to get into this great hobby.

[123cents]

Thanks everyone - I didn't expect to win the bid and after 3 hours of being the high bidder no one jumped on the grenade for me...

 

This will not turn me off at all to coin collecting - I'll bite the bullet and start making wise decisions instead of getting caught up in the moment like a giddy little girl.

 

Good for you Kent. If you are going to buy graded coins, I would stick right now with NGC and PCGS. Keep reading these boards. You can learn a lot. I would recommend the book Photograde by James F. Ruddy. It will help you to learn how to accurately grade your own coins. Another great book for the beginner is The Coin Collector's Survival Manual by Scott A. Travers.

[jesbroken]

Welcome to the forum Kent. If you haven't been burnt on Ebay, you just aren't bidding. Not to say Ebay is bad or anything but it is an easy place to have this happen. Shame your first bid bit you back. This coin may be a weak strike MS or a high AU but it is definitely an instruction in the auction game. Most will agree that if you leave the top four TPG's(PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG) you are playing with dynamite. Not that it cannot be done but most carefully and with education. Learn to grade was the best suggestion made on this post. It is not hard to get the basics down and their are many books to help you. Good luck.

[MarkFeld]

Welcome Kent. Sadly, I believe that the coin is AU/almost uncirculated and that you would be wasting additional money by having it graded elsewhere.

 

I don't know of that "grading company" - there are a number of sellers who grade and encapsulate their own coins without disclosing that fact. I believe that to be extremely unethical.

 

The seller states in his listing: "* Price range quotes do not necessarily reflect the price of our coins offered for auction and are not intended to imply the value of any coin listed herein." Why include auction prices realized then? The answer is that he is trying to imply that his coin is worth far more than it is.

[MAULEMALL]

If you can, I would strongly urge you NOT to pay for the coin, even if it means getting kicked off of eBay! It is just completely the wrong way to get into this great hobby.

I agree whole heartedly with James..In the future if you see this on any auction you may want to RUN, Not walk, Away....

 

from your auction

For this item only: NO RETURNS, NO REFUNDS ALL SALES ARE FINAL. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ASK BEFORE YOU BID, QUESTIONS SHOULD BE DIRECTED THROUGH EBAY MESSAGE SERVICE. PLEASE ASK IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS. EXAMINE COINS CAREFULLY. THIS COIN IS SOLD "AS IS" WE WILL NOT ACCEPT RETURNS OR EXCHANGES FOR THIS COIN ALL SALES ARE FINAL.

[kmax00-migration]

Thanks 123cents - I actually read another one of Scott Travers books this weekend "How to Make Money Investing in Coins" or something like that and thats when I started really realizing the error of my ways.

 

I have a bad habit of throwing a few bucks around without proper investigation.

 

I'm very impressed with the speed of response from everyone - thanks and I'll definitely spend a lot of time at work digging through the posts!

[bsshog40]

Welcome Kent. Looks like evrryone broke you in pretty good. Sorry about the Morgan, but this is the place to learn, not in the market.

[MAULEMALL]

If you can, I would strongly urge you NOT to pay for the coin, even if it means getting kicked off of eBay! It is just completely the wrong way to get into this great hobby.

I agree whole heartedly with James..In the future if you see this on any auction you may want to RUN, Not walk, Away....

 

from your auction

For this item only: NO RETURNS, NO REFUNDS ALL SALES ARE FINAL. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ASK BEFORE YOU BID, QUESTIONS SHOULD BE DIRECTED THROUGH EBAY MESSAGE SERVICE. PLEASE ASK IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS. EXAMINE COINS CAREFULLY. THIS COIN IS SOLD "AS IS" WE WILL NOT ACCEPT RETURNS OR EXCHANGES FOR THIS COIN ALL SALES ARE FINAL.

your coin

[CurrierVentures]

ONLY buy NGC/PCGS/ANACS coins

 

Better yet – learn to grade yourself. Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I agree with the others – this coin is a dog.

 

Its kind of hard to grade a coin from a website picture.

[TomB]

My impression, based upon the images provided, is that the coin is AU with negative eye appeal, but please keep in mind I am only going by the single set of images, which may or may not be accurate. My gut reaction, based upon experience within the coin hobby/industry, is that few, if any, would put a truly MS67 1883-S Morgan dollar in an off-brand holder.

 

Perhaps you make a deal with the seller and tell him that you will not report him for stealing the Coin Facts page regarding this coin in exchange for you not paying for the lot. In other words, if I found myself in a case like this I might strongly consider not paying for the coin and simply accepting a negative feedback and NPB report.

[CurrierVentures]

What puzzles me is how the $%$^%$^%$ could a seller like that have a 100% feedback rating with no negative withdrawals? Its hard to fathom that no one has ever been upset byt receiving such an overgraded coin.

[WinstonWare]

ONLY buy NGC/PCGS/ANACS coins

 

Better yet – learn to grade yourself. Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I agree with the others – this coin is a dog.

 

Its kind of hard to grade a coin from a website picture.

 

Oh Please….

 

 

Moving on, Kent is this coin paid for?

[WoodenJefferson]

The generic slab from Grade Evaluation Company is not really in line with ANA standards or even the top grading companies for that matter.

 

On the grade label shown, we know what the GEC stands for, but we do not know exactly what the MS 67 really means.

 

The majority of grading companies follow tradition and hyphenate the grade like this, MS-67 meaning the abbreviation for "Mint State" with a Sheldon Scale point grade of 67.

 

Their MS 67 could mean just about anything, like Michigan State, class of 67

 

The seller/slabber maybe skirting the issue by designating the grade as they have on the insert, meaningless to Numismatics.

 

I'm going to let the Morgan experts decide just what you got here and so far from what I have read, the majority agreed with my first impression. Do you see the flat spot on Liberty's hair by her ear? That is a very good indication that this coin has seen some circulation at one point. There are times however where this is an indication of a weak strike, but I do not think this is the case.

 

Welcome to the forum kmhall00, listen, look, learn...and by all means, enjoy this hobby. We have all had set backs at one time or another, the learning curve is bigger now more than ever before.

[MarkFeld]

What puzzles me is how the $%$^%$^%$ could a seller like that have a 100% feedback rating with no negative withdrawals? Its hard to fathom that no one has ever been upset byt receiving such an overgraded coin.

My guess is that the seller's listings (like those of other sellers of badly over-graded coins in off brand holders) appeal to unknowledgeable buyers who think they are getting bargains. By the time they find out that they have been buried, instead, it will probably be too late for them to leave negative feedback.

[James_OldeTowne]

What puzzles me is how the $%$^%$^%$ could a seller like that have a 100% feedback rating with no negative withdrawals?

I can say from experience that sometimes, you can press a cowardly loser like this to accept a return, perhaps at a 20% loss - which in this case would be worth it.

 

I say cowardly, because I bet this low-life loser would never have the gumption to set up at a live coin show, where people can laugh at his ridiculous wares.

[WinstonWare]

I say cowardly, because I bet this low-life loser would never have the gumption to set up at a live coin show, where people can laugh at his ridiculous wares.

 

It would be fun if he did though James

[WoodenJefferson]

[Stanley]

Welcome Kent,

Sorry about your bad experience on ebay.

Looks like you just purchased it. If I were you I would file an item not as described claim against the seller. With ebay making an effort to combat this sort of situation of misrepresentation and you being the consumer, I believe you can get a refund. Additionally, I hope you paid with PayPal. Would make things much easier on this one.

Good Luck

 

Edited to add: I also noticed he is a member of Square Trade.

[kmax00-migration]

I was very weary of paying the guy because i was not excited about this coin anyway - as I said before - I was shocked that I wasn't outbid for 3 hours... and when I did win I started looking into why.

 

I knew I was getting a low grade coin but I remained hopeful that it would at least be MS60.

 

Moreso, I bid so I feel to maintain the integrity of my name I had to pay and then ask him to keep the coin. I offered 100 bucks for his trouble and the eBay costs, but he refuses.

 

Expensive lesson, but I'll learn from it thats for sure.

 

Thanks again for all the posts and words of encouragement.

 

Kent

[rrantique]

 

Hi and welcome to the forum

[kmax00-migration]

Hi Stanley,

 

I threatened him with misrepresentation, but to no avail...

 

I used PayPal and American Express so hopefully something can be done, and if not I'll take great pleasure in being his FIRST negative review.

 

Thanks for the tips.

[WinstonWare]

Well I made a similar mistake in one of my first transactions a while back. Bought a cleaned Trade dollar for $300 that was worth closer to $100. I think we all go through it. I’m glad to hear that you are planning to stick with the hobby .