Morgan Melt Down !

[zzpot-migration]

Hlo ppl

 

 

Like I said in my first post I'm probably the newest Morgan Hunter on the Planet !

 

Its not hard to actually find information on the Morgan's history and how the coinage in circulation could be the biggest mystery of the 20th century.

 

 

Ive read two different estimates on how many were melted down to supply England with silver in 1918 , one being 240 million and the other 270 million and both stated the fact that it was by law to be Morgans.

 

Well i broke out Excel and did a spread sheet on the numbers minted during the years 1878 thru 1904.

 

Total Minted for Circulation = 547,100,590

 

Total Melted Down (min) 240,000,000

 

 

So I guess what remained was close to 307,100,590 coins left in circulation or around 56 percent.

 

Any of you old timers out there probably know alot more than I do what the silver market was up until the late 1970's when silver skyrocketed and everyone was cashing in there old coins for quick cash. ( so if there is something im missing please help fill in the blanks )

 

So I guess the point I'm getting at is that nobody really knows what or how many dates made it thru these two events in the history of the morgan dollar and some dates may be rare (er) than most people think.

 

 

1904 - O - 3,720,000

1904 - S - 2,304,000

1904 - P - 2,304,000

 

Also I dont have any figures on what the expected life of a Morgan Dollar is or what the culling over the years has been by the Mints..( taken them out of circulation ) especally with all the peace dollars that followed.

 

If you have any information that might factor into this please drop me a line.....

 

zz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jtryka]

This is a subject of much debate and research over the years. Personally, I believe that many dates are a lot scarcer than many would believe, however, I also believe that there are still plenty out there, outside of the usual key dates. This doesn't mean that they aren't undervalued in today's market, however I believe that the biggest factor in their current cheap prices has more to do with the price of silver, and the repurcussions of the last Morgan "bubble" of the late 1980s. As for the silver runup in the late 1970s, I could be mistaken, but I believe that most of the melting that occurred was in common date "junk" silver of smaller denominations, as Morgans and Peace dollars were larger and more convenient than small coins, and easier to handle than 100 oz bars. The other thing to consider as well, is that many of the Morgans that were saved were of higher grades, so the additional "scarcity" would be skewed to lower grade common date Morgans, which are hardly the areas of greatest potential demand increases (there may only be 10 P-01 1881-S Morgans in the world, but I only know one guy that would be interested in them).

[BillJones]

The major determining factor when it comes to the dates of Morgan dollars that survived in quantity depends upon what dates were in the Treasury Department hoards.

 

There were many, many 1904-O dollars in the hoard that come out in the early 1960s. Therefore that date is very common and will remain so until there is a very large influx of new collectors. The 1904-P and 1904-S are both better dates because they were not found in large quanties in the govenment hoards, at least not the last government hoards.

 

Still you have to remember that the overall survival rates for Morgan Dollars are FAR higher than they are the seated and Barber coins that were issued during the same period. That is reflected by the low prices that circulated Morgan dollars bring even when the same date and mint mark combinations sell for thousands of dollars in Mint State.

 

Morgan dollars are really very common coins for the most part. Only a few dates, such as 1889-CC, 1893-S and 1895-P have any real scarcity. Morgan dollar prices are driven by their many devoted collectors.

[291fifth]

Morgans are very popular coins. They should never be considered rare by date/mm, however. If you have the money they are available.

[zzpot-migration]

Hlo Bill

 

Hey old timer you were right about one thing !

 

The US Mint is selling 1904 - O right now plus a few others.

 

1904 -O @ 35.00 or 2 for 65.00

 

I hope that worked.

 

As far as the survival rates of the Morgans I don't know about that one still trying to hunt down more information..............thanks for the input about the 60's release.

 

Also another thing I'm trying to find out what was the Philadelphia mint doing in 1895 ? ( gearing up 1896 - p - 9,976,000)

 

ok laterz

 

Got my P's and O' mixed up..............Im better now

 

 

 

[BillJones]

The US Mint is selling 1904 - O right now plus a few others.

 

Please don't give people here a heart attack! Your link goes to a private seller. The U.S. government now only owns a few junky silver dollars, and no big or little hoards of Mint State coins of any dates.

 

Here's a piece of history for you. Back in the early 1960s, 1903-O silver dollars sold for $1,500 in BU. (We did not have the 11 point grading system then.) Then one Christmas the treasury released a few thousand pieces. As a result the price fell from $1,500 to $15.00. Today MS-63 or 64 examples are worth $300 to $400 in today's dollars.

 

In addition to the 1903-O prices fell dramatically for 1898-O and 1904-O dollars as well.

[JD-migration]

Morgans are very popular coins.

 

No argument here....

 

They should never be considered rare by date/mm,

 

If date/mm are not considered for rarity, then why do we have all these books and price guides by date/mm, instead of for just plain 'ol Morgan dollars and other denominations. I must be misunderstanding your comment.

 

however. If you have the money they are available.

 

I think this statement has much, much broader implications than just popular, not rare by date/mm, Morgan dollars.

 

No flame intended, I just don't understand you comment.

[TomB]

I think what 291fifth was getting at is there are no individual issues within the Morgan series that are truly rare. Also, if you have some money to spend, you can find nearly any date and mintmark combination relatively quickly.

 

This is true with many series but not with all.

[BillJones]

If date/mm are not considered for rarity, then why do we have all these books and price guides by date/mm, instead of for just plain 'ol Morgan dollars and other denominations. I must be misunderstanding your comment.

 

Morgan dollars are wildly collected and nearly all of date and mint mark combinations are consistently available in any grade from VG to MS-64 or 65 for a price. As a dealer I'll tell you that it's whole lot easier to fill a Morgan dollar want list than most any other 19th century series, especially in Mint State.

 

Unless you are looking for every coin in MS-66 CAM and DCAM about all it takes is money. If you are willing to spend the time, with the exception of a couple of dates, like some of the O mints in the 1890s, you can get the MS-66 CAM and DCAM coins too.

 

The profit motive drives Morgan Dollar publications. That's why there are so many books about them. Don't get me wrong. Some of the books like Wayne Miller's Textbook and the VAM book are neat and a joy to read. But it's that large Morgan Dollar market and that large supply of coin available to feed it that has encouraged the publications.

[azmorganman]

Here's a piece of history for you. Back in the early 1960s, 1903-O silver dollars sold for $1,500 in BU. (We did not have the 11 point grading system then.) Then one Christmas the treasury released a few thousand pieces. As a result the price fell from $1,500 to $15.00. Today MS-63 or 64 examples are worth $300 to $400 in today's dollars.

 

Ain't that the truth. Took a hole lotta PrepH to get over that fiasco. I had 7 03-O's. Taught me to go for the love and not the money. Mostly.

[lclugza]

Many of the Morgans were put away in vaults and never circulated. That is why many of them are so low priced in MS today. Seated and Barber coins of the same era were almost all dumped into circulation, making them rarer and more expensive in Mint State. The reason why many Morgans did not circulate is because (due to the Bland-Allison and Sherman acts) many more were minted than were needed.

[Oldtrader3]

There were still hundreds of thousands of worn Peace and Morgan dollars floating around in Reno and Las Vegas Slots in the mid-sixties. My family had cigar boxes full of of them (won from $1.00 slots) in worn grades that we sold for melt at $40+ per ounce in 1980. None of these coins were rare dates and none were above VF grade. I went through every one of them. I do not believe that very many MS Morgans or Peace dollars went back to the smelters.