Some really nasty ASEs

[SatTech]

Here's a couple that are going back to PCGS for review. I'll let ya'll know how it comes out. I've got a total of 8 to return. I think it's interesting how they won't give MS-70 grades because of spotting issues, but the only one's I'm having any trouble with are the proofs.

 

 

 

[123cents]

Sorry to see your ASE's have milk spots. I have some MS ASE's graded by PCGS and NGC that have milk spots.

[SatTech]

Well, the coins are off to PCGS for 'Spot Check'. We'll see what they have to say/do. For those interested, you submit them under OTHER, and write in Spot Check in the blank. It doesn't cost anything except return shipping.

[MunkyMan95]

Sorry, but YUCK!!!

[Zoins]

HRH has said that PCGS has been more successful in removing spots from proofs than uncs which may be the reason for the difference in awarding 70s.

[SatTech]

It'll be interesting to see what they do. Either clean and reholder them, or just buy em back. I had read ATS that they can clean the proofs sometimes. We'll see.

 

And, yes, they are nasty...no appoligies necessary.

[SatTech]

BUMP...Just received an email from PCGS. Of the 7 coins I sent in, they were only able to save 2 of them. The other 5 they offered to

a) send my a check for them at fair market value or

b) send the coins back raw plus fair market value minus $10/coin.

 

A quick scan of ebay showed their prices to be fair and i'll be able to replace the ones I need to (I had already replaced a couple of them) so I took the coins back raw plus a check. I'm interested to see what they did to the other 2 (I didn't image either of them because the spotting was not nearly as dramatic as the ones above). I'll probably use that 98 as a pocket piece or something. So far it's been a good experience.

[James_OldeTowne]

BUMP...Just received an email from PCGS. Of the 7 coins I sent in, they were only able to save 2 of them. The other 5 they offered to

a) send my a check for them at fair market value or

b) send the coins back raw plus fair market value minus $10/coin.

 

A quick scan of ebay showed their prices to be fair and i'll be able to replace the ones I need to (I had already replaced a couple of them) so I took the coins back raw plus a check. I'm interested to see what they did to the other 2 (I didn't image either of them because the spotting was not nearly as dramatic as the ones above). I'll probably use that 98 as a pocket piece or something. So far it's been a good experience.

Congratulations on getting good and quick service from PCGS! Maybe they're improving in that department?

 

I'm assuming the coins were completely spot-free when you bought them?

[SatTech]

Actually the 2 of the 3 imaged I got a really good deal on because they had some small spots. One was purchased for cheap, but I didn't read the whole auction description before I bid. Totally my fault (no wonder I won it for so little compared with problem free samples) As you can see, they no longer have small spots. The other 4 were spot free when I bought them and they have since turned.

[WinstonWare]

I’m not in this market at all but I have read a few posts about it. Is this just happening with the SAEs or does this happen with silver Maple Leaves as well?

[Revenant]

Sorry to see your ASE's have milk spots. I have some MS ASE's graded by PCGS and NGC that have milk spots.

 

While I agree that I wouldn't want proof coins to look like that, the MS bullion coins don't bother me too much if they have some spotting. Yes I prefer it when they don't have any but they're still nice coins even with spots and it can be interesting to look at. A few spots that come about as a result of the manufacturing process shouldn't be considered the death of the coin's collectability/value.

[SatTech]

The only recent coins are the SAE's. Both proof and UNC. I haven't heard of any problems on the W mint burnished planchet ones yet. You'll see older mint sets with the same problems (Kennedy and franklin halfs). PCGS supposedly had hired a chemist (or so the story goes) to find out exactly what was causing the problems, but as of right now nobody knows. So far, these are the only coins with problems. I cannot say for sure if it's a problem with Maple Leaves or not, but I've yet to read anything on them.

[bsshog40]

There have been more problems with the proof spotting than anything else I've seen. I'm kind of puzzeled tho'. I have gotten modern Commemorative proofs and SAE proofs from the US Mint. It seems that all I've heard about are spots on the SAE's. Unless there are some comms out there that are spotting, I wonder if there isn't a different rinsing operation being done to the SAE's. Maybe the operations are different from the mints. Most late Modern Comm Proofs are minted in Philly, with the exception of a couple, (excluding gold)in which the SAE's are minted in West Point from 2001 and up. Have there been much spotting of SAE's before 2001?

[SatTech]

I've always thought it was kinda funny that there doesn't appear to be any problems with modern commems. It would be interesting to see if the problem was more prevalent at one of the mints vs. the others.

[SatTech]

Bump for update...

 

I just received the coins back from PCGS. Of the 7 I sent them, they were able to 'clean' 2 of them. Looking at the ones they saved, I cannot tell where the spotting was. The other 5, obviously, could not be restored, and were returned in plastic flips. The spotting is much reduced, but still visible. The 3 pictured at the start of this thread were the worst, and were not salvable. When I get a little time, I'll post some pics.

 

Anybody with spotting problems should consider sending them to PCGS under their grade guarantee. I only had to pay shipping. Just submit them under 'OTHER' and write in 'Spot Check'.

 

Hope this was informative

[SatTech]

Attached are the pictures of after...

 

 

Spots are alot lighter but still very noticable.

 

 

Not bad, but not good either.

 

 

And the ugliest of all. Not the yellowish shade it was originally, but still pretty nasty. Maybe i'll start putting together a set of AU50 proof eagles...

[bsshog40]

Well at least they are able to work these milk spots fairly decent.

[notabene-migration]

What's the going best theory on the cause of these milk spots on SAEs? I'd like to collect these, but this issue has me worried that it's money down the drain!

[bsshog40]

I'm thinking these are caused by poor rinsing at the mint. It takes them a little while to show up.

[SatTech]

PCGS has a press release saying they are investigating the milk spotting issue. It's in their announcement about giving out 70's for MS silver eagles.

 

Yeah, it sucks finding these on your coins, but PCGS did make good on their grade guarantee. I submitted 7 and got 2 back cleaned and reholdered and 5 back in flips along with a check for fair market value. I believe NGC would do the same, so there's not a lot of risk involved. For instance, the 1996 they offered $85 back and no coin or $75 back and the coin raw. Pretty fair in my opinion.

[DJCoinz]

That does sound pretty fair. Glad you got it resolved favorably.

[carson city]

Post Grading . Maybe related to a storage problem !

[notabene-migration]

Check out this auction for an MS70, yes MS, not PF, ASE with milk spots.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190135305600&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1

 

I thought this problem was unique to the proofs!

 

[bsshog40]

Looks like an NGC slab too. That needs to be sent back for appearance review.

[stev32k]

I bought ten of the 20th anniversary SAE sets from the mint and sent them all back for exchange because of spotting. The replacements came in two boxes of five each and I only opened one, but those five were all good. Here's two of the reverse proofs I sent back. The red circle shows a prominent pit that was present on several of them.

 

[Revenant]

I'm starting to think that I'm the only one that doesn't think a few milk spots ruin the coin. Yes, I'll agree that I wouldn't want a proof or uncirculated (W) coin with spots and I don't think a coin with spots should get MS70, but the spots are not that bad. (As a ChemE major I also wish I could figure out what process is causing the spots to develope and why the spots always show up in so many different shapes and sizes and in different locations all over the coins)

 

[TraderGuys-migration]

I have been hearing more and more reports of problems with milk spots on both the PF and MS ASE's.

Too bad as they really are beautiful coins.

 

Bruce

[TraderGuys-migration]

I am hearing that one of the reasons that these spots are occurring is the rinsing system used by the mint.

 

I don't know how valid that reason is. Perhaps they are using non-distilled water???

 

Sure wish they would solve the problem.

 

One other thing is that they will appear even after the coin is holdered which tells me it is a chemical reaction which does not require it to have an air supply to make it happen.

 

Then again, I failed chemistry every year I tood it!!!

 

Bruce

[Revenant]

I am hearing that one of the reasons that these spots are occurring is the rinsing system used by the mint.

 

I don't know how valid that reason is. Perhaps they are using non-distilled water???

 

Sure wish they would solve the problem.

 

One other thing is that they will appear even after the coin is holdered which tells me it is a chemical reaction which does not require it to have an air supply to make it happen.

 

Then again, I failed chemistry every year I tood it!!!

 

Bruce

 

I haven't found a chem class yet that I couldn't get an A in. Most reactions I'm aware of involve Silver Nitrate and most products of reactions involving silver give off a black silver-containing product, not a white one. That's what seems so dang wierd about these spots. It could easily be a non-air dependent reaction, but if so, what are they rinsing with, from what source and what are the contaminants? It's hard to figure out what reaction is taking place without knowing what's present to react with. Also, since I don't think they evacuate air in the slabs when they're sealed, it could still be air dependent which would help explain if the coins spot to a certain degree and then the process stops, like if a necessary reactant was used up. You can test product samples (read: destroy the coin) to figure out what's there, but if a professional chemist couldn't figure it out... *shrug

 

I'm afraid I've just rambled on...

[bsshog40]

The slabs are not airtite anyway. So if this issue is air dependent, this could happen at anytime whether they are raw or even years after slabbing.