Legend Auctions?

[BillJones]

The main thing that makes PCGS and NGC coins more saleable than the "independent services" (Gray Sheet terminology) is that the market perceives that their grading more consistent and reliable. I'm not going to fight city hall on this. I've had trouble selling coins in off-brand holders, even when the coin were properly graded and perfectly fine. Therefore I stay away from them.

 

There might be few Wall Street yahoos who are impressed by the ANA endorsement of NGC, but most collectors know that that ANA endorsement was purchased for a price. And makes that endorsement less impressive IMO.

[MikeKing]

but that really ticks off DH, and that's a GOOD thing...ain't it!

[MunkyMan95]

As far as I'm concerned, NGC and PCGS are on a level playing field. Until something drastic happens to change my mind, that's how it will be.

[MAULEMALL]

 

Copied from the Legend site W/O thier permission so if TDN asks I will be Happy to delete it...

 

 

THE LONG BEACH SHOW REPORT

06-06-2007

 

 

OUR PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED (ABOUT GRADE-FLATION)!

 

Legend has recently been invited to join a powerful consortium to halt grade-flation. We obviously accepted the invitation and are looking forward to the day when low-end coins AND OVERGRADED COINS will no longer continue to destroy the values of hand selected coins that we have placed in our client's collections. This is all we can say at the moment, more news will be posted in the near future. This group is NOT one of empty promises, some of the most prominent "get it done" people in the business are invloved.

 

As many of you know this topic has been #1 of our focus list for the past several months. Until we got this breaking news a few days ago, we had been starting to think that all was hopeless. At times we thought we were alone in this fight (dealers were either too chicken to speak up, or a small handful siezed the opportunity to act like they care for show off purposes). Unfortunately, we did see many of the "crackout" guys still making their "lovely puke" Saints and Morgans at the show. PCGS was still acting as if there were no problems-while we saw a lot of problem coins that were freshly graded by them (we were also told-and experienced ourselves that they weren't crossing coins either). No one told us they bought any back as well.

 

With this new group coming into focus its good news for all consumers, PCGS won't be able to act likethey have been much longer. NGC as we all know has been tight, they seem to understand what needs to be done. Still, it is going to take a huge effort on everyones part to clean up this mess. Fortunately, it all can and WILL be corrected. It is now clear to us, that a major change is right around the corner-and we couldn't be happier! We are pleased to have been invited to participate.

[MunkyMan95]

Who is included in the so-called "powerful consortium?"

[rrantique]

but that really ticks off DH, and that's a GOOD thing...ain't it!

 

[MAULEMALL]

Who is included in the so-called "powerful consortium?"

 

Maybe TDN will let us Know.

[MunkyMan95]

Who is included in the so-called "powerful consortium?"

 

Maybe TDN will let us Know.

 

One can only hope

[BillJones]

Who is included in the so-called "powerful consortium?"

 

Maybe TDN will let us Know.

 

One can only hope

 

If this "powerful consortium" is going to work, they will have to learn how to treat collectors like me with some respect.

 

I understand the concept that over graded coins can ruin the value of collections that contain hand picked coins. Many of the numbers on the Gray Sheet so-called sight seen bids are too low because the prices are dumbed down for over graded material. That's means that when one tries to sell PQ material to some dealers, the first thing they face is the line, "But the Gray says ..."

 

The trouble is those who would like to alter the system need to build alliances not turn people off. I’d like to make peace with Legend, but somehow I think if I approached them at the next Baltimore show, my overtures would be met with stone silence at best. That’s the reaction I got years ago when I tried to compliment Laura on her efforts to combat over graded coins across the street.

[MAULEMALL]

Who is included in the so-called "powerful consortium?"

 

Maybe TDN will let us Know.

 

One can only hope

 

If this "powerful consortium" is going to work, they will have to learn how to treat collectors like me with some respect.

 

I understand the concept that over graded coins can ruin the value of collections that contain hand picked coins. Many of the numbers on the Gray Sheet so-called sight seen bids are too low because the prices are dumbed down for over graded material. That's means that when one tries to sell PQ material to some dealers, the first thing they face is the line, "But the Gray says ..."

 

The trouble is those who would like to alter the system need to build alliances not turn people off. I’d like to make peace with Legend, but somehow I think if I approached them at the next Baltimore show, my overtures would be met with stone silence at best. That’s the reaction I got years ago when I tried to compliment Laura on her efforts to combat over graded coins across the street.

The trouble is those who would like to alter the system need to build alliances not turn people off. I’d like to make peace with Legend, but somehow I think if I approached them at the next Baltimore show, my overtures would be met with stone silence at best. That’s the reaction I got years ago when I tried to compliment Laura on her efforts to combat over graded coins across the street.

 

Do a face to face...I don't know the lady and have never even met her but you never really know do you..She may surprise you.

[Houston Investor]

Spare me Legend's politics about overgraded coins, I would rather just see the Legend Auctions come back so I can buy some nice stuff below bid.

[MarkFeld]

Who is included in the so-called "powerful consortium?"

 

Maybe TDN will let us Know.

 

One can only hope

 

If this "powerful consortium" is going to work, they will have to learn how to treat collectors like me with some respect.

 

I understand the concept that over graded coins can ruin the value of collections that contain hand picked coins. Many of the numbers on the Gray Sheet so-called sight seen bids are too low because the prices are dumbed down for over graded material. That's means that when one tries to sell PQ material to some dealers, the first thing they face is the line, "But the Gray says ..."

 

The trouble is those who would like to alter the system need to build alliances not turn people off. I’d like to make peace with Legend, but somehow I think if I approached them at the next Baltimore show, my overtures would be met with stone silence at best. That’s the reaction I got years ago when I tried to compliment Laura on her efforts to combat over graded coins across the street.

The trouble is those who would like to alter the system need to build alliances not turn people off. I’d like to make peace with Legend, but somehow I think if I approached them at the next Baltimore show, my overtures would be met with stone silence at best. That’s the reaction I got years ago when I tried to compliment Laura on her efforts to combat over graded coins across the street.

 

Do a face to face...I don't know the lady and have never even met her but you never really know do you..She may surprise you.

Patrick, YOU try a face to face first, and if you live through it let us know how it went and whether it was a good surprise or a bad surprise. Just kidding. I love to walk up to Laura at shows and point out to her that I've just caught her with a smile on her face.

[MAULEMALL]

Who is included in the so-called "powerful consortium?"

 

Maybe TDN will let us Know.

 

One can only hope

 

If this "powerful consortium" is going to work, they will have to learn how to treat collectors like me with some respect.

 

I understand the concept that over graded coins can ruin the value of collections that contain hand picked coins. Many of the numbers on the Gray Sheet so-called sight seen bids are too low because the prices are dumbed down for over graded material. That's means that when one tries to sell PQ material to some dealers, the first thing they face is the line, "But the Gray says ..."

 

The trouble is those who would like to alter the system need to build alliances not turn people off. I’d like to make peace with Legend, but somehow I think if I approached them at the next Baltimore show, my overtures would be met with stone silence at best. That’s the reaction I got years ago when I tried to compliment Laura on her efforts to combat over graded coins across the street.

The trouble is those who would like to alter the system need to build alliances not turn people off. I’d like to make peace with Legend, but somehow I think if I approached them at the next Baltimore show, my overtures would be met with stone silence at best. That’s the reaction I got years ago when I tried to compliment Laura on her efforts to combat over graded coins across the street.

 

Do a face to face...I don't know the lady and have never even met her but you never really know do you..She may surprise you.

Patrick, YOU try a face to face first, and if you live through it let us know how it went and whether it was a good surprise or a bad surprise. Just kidding. I love to walk up to Laura at shows and point out to her that I've just caught her with a smile on her face.

Believe me Mark when I say I have faced down many Much More imposing than Ms Sperber...People seem to melt before my immense charm and bearing..

[JamminJ]

Copied from the Legend site W/O thier permission so if TDN asks I will be Happy to delete it...

 

 

THE LONG BEACH SHOW REPORT

06-06-2007

 

 

OUR PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED (ABOUT GRADE-FLATION)!

 

Legend has recently been invited to join a powerful consortium to halt grade-flation. We obviously accepted the invitation and are looking forward to the day when low-end coins AND OVERGRADED COINS will no longer continue to destroy the values of hand selected coins that we have placed in our client's collections. This is all we can say at the moment, more news will be posted in the near future. This group is NOT one of empty promises, some of the most prominent "get it done" people in the business are invloved.

 

As many of you know this topic has been #1 of our focus list for the past several months. Until we got this breaking news a few days ago, we had been starting to think that all was hopeless. At times we thought we were alone in this fight (dealers were either too chicken to speak up, or a small handful siezed the opportunity to act like they care for show off purposes). Unfortunately, we did see many of the "crackout" guys still making their "lovely puke" Saints and Morgans at the show. PCGS was still acting as if there were no problems-while we saw a lot of problem coins that were freshly graded by them (we were also told-and experienced ourselves that they weren't crossing coins either). No one told us they bought any back as well.

 

With this new group coming into focus its good news for all consumers, PCGS won't be able to act likethey have been much longer. NGC as we all know has been tight, they seem to understand what needs to be done. Still, it is going to take a huge effort on everyones part to clean up this mess. Fortunately, it all can and WILL be corrected. It is now clear to us, that a major change is right around the corner-and we couldn't be happier! We are pleased to have been invited to participate.

 

Wow, this changes everything! No more overgraded coins!

[Shamika-migration]

I too submit to NGC thru the ANA and find their grading competent and service satisfactory. I also like submitting to ANACS (Americas oldest grading service and right here in Texas) and ICG.

 

I like NGC as they are the grading service of the ANA and PNG which really enhances the marketability of their product.

NGC is "the grading service of the ANA and PNG" because of paid endorsements. You are literally the first dealer or collector I've heard indicate that it increases the marketability of the NGC product in any way. I know of no informed/knowledgeable buyer/collector who is swayed in the least by that type of endorsement.

 

 

I agree. Mark was banned by PCGS so he's the last person to start sipping Kool Aid. And your customers who are so impressed by the ANA/PNG endorsements are not what I'd call "knowledgeable".

[gmarguli]

I know of no informed/knowledgeable buyer/collector who is swayed in the least by that type of endorsement.

 

But what about the other 98% of the market? Clearly the endorsement has significant value to the TPG or it wouldn't be so highly prized - so much so that millions were bid and the ex-winner/current loser took out an ad in the papers to whine like a little girl whose doll was taken away.

[TomB]

I know of no informed/knowledgeable buyer/collector who is swayed in the least by that type of endorsement.

 

But what about the other 98% of the market? Clearly the endorsement has significant value to the TPG or it wouldn't be so highly prized - so much so that millions were bid and the ex-winner/current loser took out an ad in the papers to whine like a little girl whose doll was taken away.

I agree with everything you wrote here, Greg, except that I would change 98% to something closer to 99.5%.

[MAULEMALL]

I know of no informed/knowledgeable buyer/collector who is swayed in the least by that type of endorsement.

 

But what about the other 98% of the market? Clearly the endorsement has significant value to the TPG or it wouldn't be so highly prized - so much so that millions were bid and the ex-winner/current loser took out an ad in the papers to whine like a little girl whose doll was taken away.

I agree with everything you wrote here, Greg, except that I would change 98% to something closer to 99.5%.

I think Tom is closer to being right..

[MarkFeld]

I know of no informed/knowledgeable buyer/collector who is swayed in the least by that type of endorsement.

 

But what about the other 98% of the market? Clearly the endorsement has significant value to the TPG or it wouldn't be so highly prized - so much so that millions were bid and the ex-winner/current loser took out an ad in the papers to whine like a little girl whose doll was taken away.

Greg, regardless of what the %'s are, I was speaking of informed collectors. You and (at least some) others are apparently speaking of uninformed ones.

[MAULEMALL]

I know of no informed/knowledgeable buyer/collector who is swayed in the least by that type of endorsement.

 

But what about the other 98% of the market? Clearly the endorsement has significant value to the TPG or it wouldn't be so highly prized - so much so that millions were bid and the ex-winner/current loser took out an ad in the papers to whine like a little girl whose doll was taken away.

Greg, regardless of what the %'s are, I was speaking of informed collectors. You and (at least some) others are apparently speaking of uninformed ones.

I don't think he meant us Tom

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gmarguli]

I know of no informed/knowledgeable buyer/collector who is swayed in the least by that type of endorsement.

 

But what about the other 98% of the market? Clearly the endorsement has significant value to the TPG or it wouldn't be so highly prized - so much so that millions were bid and the ex-winner/current loser took out an ad in the papers to whine like a little girl whose doll was taken away.

Greg, regardless of what the %'s are, I was speaking of informed collectors. You and (at least some) others are apparently speaking of uninformed ones.

 

Informed collectors? I'm sorry, but I tend to avoid those super small niche market segments.

[MarkFeld]

I know of no informed/knowledgeable buyer/collector who is swayed in the least by that type of endorsement.

 

But what about the other 98% of the market? Clearly the endorsement has significant value to the TPG or it wouldn't be so highly prized - so much so that millions were bid and the ex-winner/current loser took out an ad in the papers to whine like a little girl whose doll was taken away.

Greg, regardless of what the %'s are, I was speaking of informed collectors. You and (at least some) others are apparently speaking of uninformed ones.

 

Informed collectors? I'm sorry, but I tend to avoid those super small niche market segments.

Greg, I'm not surprised to hear that, but prefer to deal with such collectors.

[Tradedollarnut]

If this "powerful consortium" is going to work, they will have to learn how to treat collectors like me with some respect.

 

And here I thought you were a dealer ... please make up your mind!

[Keleum]

"powerful consortium" -isn't that an oxymoron...

 

Just say what you mean: There can be only one!!!

[DirtyGoldMan]

Sip your Kool Aid but NGC's integrity is a fact and this certainly has led to sales for me on the bourse and online. I dispute your comment.

 

In addition, I have had customers at shows upon seeing their ANA / PNG logo not only want to look at NGC coins only but inquire about their services.

You've got the wrong guy if you think I drink Kool Aid of any (grading company brand). I said nothing about NGC's integrity, so please don't try to attribute comments or points to me that I didn't make. If your customers are impressed by the ANA/PNG logo, chances are excellent that, a I already mentioned, they are uninformed regarding the paid endorsement.

 

It's much easier to jam overgraded stuff on an uninformed newbie than it is to sell it to a knowledgeable collector. For some, it's all about the grade on the slab and the sale.

[BillJones]

If this "powerful consortium" is going to work, they will have to learn how to treat collectors like me with some respect.

 

And here I thought you were a dealer ... please make up your mind!

 

As a matter of fact most of my recent purchases have been as a collector, and I've paid some strapping retail prices for especially choice or hard to find early U.S. coins. I've also changed my footer to read part-time dealer instead of full time dealer. Now I mostly do want list work for my customers and fewer shows.

 

So yea, now maybe I should call my self a collector, although I never stopped being a collector during the decade plus that I was a full time dealer.

 

I think you might be on to something about the merits of treating wholesale customers with contempt, TDN. I think you should write an article about the practice and submit for it for publication to the Harvard Business Review . The Harvard MBA program is based upon case studies, and such a work would certainly break new ground. If you find that handing out guff to you customers will have them coming back for more, it could revolutionize the entire wholesale sales industry. Just think, no more money wasted on client lunches and little perks. Just treat ‘em like dirt, and have ‘em come back for some more abuse.

 

Sounds like a great business plan …

[Tradedollarnut]

Your mistake, Bill, is thinking you were treated 'with contempt' when you were just treated like any other dealer ... until you publicly cried and cried and cried about how badly you were offended. My problem with you is that you seem to like to pick and choose what hat you are wearing as it suits you. At the time, you were a dealer, you were wearing a dealer's badge and you got treated like a dealer. You unnecessarily took offense and have taken every occasion to bleat your horn about it ... despite the fact that NO other dealer does such a thing.

 

Your actions are contemptable... and thus I now treat you with the contempt you so seem to crave.

[MikeInFL]

Your mistake, Bill, is thinking you were treated 'with contempt' when you were just treated like any other dealer ... until you publicly cried and cried and cried about how badly you were offended. My problem with you is that you seem to like to pick and choose what hat you are wearing as it suits you. At the time, you were a dealer, you were wearing a dealer's badge and you got treated like a dealer. You unnecessarily took offense and have taken every occasion to bleat your horn about it ... despite the fact that NO other dealer does such a thing.

 

I must agree with TDN here. I like you Bill, but I think there comes a time to let things go...Mike

[BillJones]

Your mistake, Bill, is thinking you were treated 'with contempt' when you were just treated like any other dealer ... until you publicly cried and cried and cried about how badly you were offended. My problem with you is that you seem to like to pick and choose what hat you are wearing as it suits you. At the time, you were a dealer, you were wearing a dealer's badge and you got treated like a dealer. You unnecessarily took offense and have taken every occasion to bleat your horn about it ... despite the fact that NO other dealer does such a thing.

 

I must agree with TDN here. I like you Bill, but I think there comes a time to let things go...Mike

 

Thanks for the advice, Mike. I'm going to ignore TDN and Legend from here on out. Niether of them are worth my time. But what you should realize is that TDN has a finanacial interest in Legend and will blast anyone who says anything negative about the company. Like Casy Stengal used say, "You can look it up."

[MikeInFL]

I am well aware of TDN, his relationship with Legend, and his posting history.

 

I still say there's a time to let bygones be bygones, and I'm glad to hear you'll be ignoring them.

 

Respectfully submitted...Mike