Is this AT on a Bust Half?

[MikeKing]

Here is a Bustie for auction on Heritage (lot 1095).

I've got a few Busties with similar toning, and I'm just wondering, is it well done AT?

and if not, does anyone know the conditions that would lead to this kind of toning?

[MunkyMan95]

It's VERY blue... Personally I don't like it, AT or NT. I could see how someone would. it's very pretty, but just not a color I like to see on coins, especially since the MS70 fiasco.

[123cents]

Looks like it could be album or intentional toning to me.

[MBA101]

Linky: http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=438&Lot_No=1095

 

The big pics at the bottom make the coin look more natural, and the coin does seem to be somewhat original.

[ibyandsellsmith]

I dont like it either. I don't think it's AT, if it is they jacked this coin up!

[bsshog40]

I actually like the coin. Looks like some album toning to me. Very nice!!

[WinstonWare]

My personal sense is that there are better coins out there for this kind of money. 1833 CBHs aren’t generic but they aren’t hard to find either. For this kind of money I would be looking for an original earlier date JMHO

[truthteller]

If the color is true, wrong color for this coin. Pass, holdered or not.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[gmarguli]

I like the coin and I bet it sells for way more than an average MS63.

[coinman1794]

Even if this is natural album toning, it's unlikely the coin is original. Further, the bright blue is suspicious for natural album toning. I voted AT and that it would bring a nice premium. This coin made it into a slab so the free market isn't going to discriminate against it like we do.

[WoodenJefferson]

Linky: http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=438&Lot_No=1095

 

The big pics at the bottom make the coin look more natural, and the coin does seem to be somewhat original.

 

MBA thanks for the link....the large images appear to have been juiced a bit, there by enhancing the cobalt-blue hues of the perifery.

 

The coin in the plastic holdered image is more natural and better suited to a collectors needs. To me, this is an "old school" coin that has been in one collection for many, many, many years.

 

Will it garner a premuim...yes. Would I pay that kind of price...no. Is the holdered coin attractive...yes.

 

These are my opinions and I'm sticking to them.

[Newmismatist]

There are naturally toned coins that have this look - there are also many bust halves that have been cleaned years ago and then put in an album and re-toned over time with this look. Finally there are those who can duplicate this look in a short period of time which very closely mimics naturally album toned coins -

 

Based on the picture that I see on my screen - I would be leary of this coin - BUT you must see a coin like this in hand to give an accurate opinion as to whether this is naturally toned over a period of time, or the product of a chemically-accelerated toning process.

 

The things I would look for would be whether the surface of the coin had been stripped and the toning was too heavy/thick for a NT coin - I have seen pirctures of coins that look NT in the photo and AT in hand.

[TomB]

Based upon the single images presented in this thread, I would not buy this coin. However, I bet it sells for substantially more than Greysheet and think the color is either from natural secondary toning or something less pure.

[James_OldeTowne]

This looks like blatant artificial toning, and I would not buy the coin except at a very steep discount, which is very unlikely to happen. This kind of AT gets slabbed all the time.

[MikeKing]

This looks like blatant artificial toning, and I would not buy the coin except at a very steep discount, which is very unlikely to happen. This kind of AT gets slabbed all the time.

 

I have to agree.

It doesn't make sense to me, scientifically, as NT. Too much, too fast, too confluent, on a dipped coin (I"m not against dipping mind you). Not natural. And yes, PCGS loves to holder these things.

 

edited to add:

If, when you look at a coin, you feel like someone was sitting

there with their chemistry set and a bunsen burner, chances are,

it's artificially toned.

[James_OldeTowne]

Look familiar?

 

 

[truthteller]

Unfortunately, this is the type of toning that ages poorly in a holder. The color may look nice when the coin first gets slabbed, then sold. However, after a few months sitting, the color begins to migrate over the surface of the coin. So when the collector goes to view his/her "prize" after sitting in a safe deposit box, the prize is a booby one.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[MikeKing]

Look familiar?

 

 

wha? do you mean does it look like any of my coins??? yes, as a matter of fact, it does.

 

 

 

edited to say: sorry, didn't see the jpg first time I looked at this post James. Nevermind.

 

 

[gmarguli]

Unfortunately, this is the type of toning that ages poorly in a holder. The color may look nice when the coin first gets slabbed, then sold. However, after a few months sitting, the color begins to migrate over the surface of the coin. So when the collector goes to view his/her "prize" after sitting in a safe deposit box, the prize is a booby one.TRUTH

 

It's in a really old PCGS slab.

[MBA101]

Unfortunately, this is the type of toning that ages poorly in a holder. The color may look nice when the coin first gets slabbed, then sold. However, after a few months sitting, the color begins to migrate over the surface of the coin. So when the collector goes to view his/her "prize" after sitting in a safe deposit box, the prize is a booby one.TRUTH

 

It's in a really old PCGS slab.

 

I was thinking the same thing. It has been in this holder for many years. Unless this is one of those holders with a tiny little "insert gas here" holes...

 

I think if the coin was going to go "lousy" in the holder it would have done so by now.

[truthteller]

"I think if the coin was going to go "lousy" in the holder it would have done so by now."

 

 

The coin already has. It's a matter of perspective. The coin may have started out with lighter pretty colors, only to migrate into darker purple, then reached a point of stablization. The older the holder means that the MORE likely the coin has reached a stable point of color. The NEWER the holder, means that the AT color has a HIGHER likelihood of changing colors into the future.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[coinman1794]

I agree its already bad.

 

That type of toning is not only blatantly AT to me, but it's the type that turns black as the various colors mix. Look at the grey/black that shows at the rims on this one. It's likely that the whole coin will eventually turn. It's not quite what you would see on a natural, darkly toned coin however.

[stman]

And most/many always love things like the half and quarter as they feel it's "Pretty." What about this? It's a pcgs image and I cut out the noise around it.....

 

[coinman1794]

I don't get the AT vibe on this one. I think's a nice coin, though probably not original, but I am at a dissadvantage, only having pictures to go by. See MikeKing's new Bust half toning post. He made a list of various types of Bust half toning. Per his list, I would say this coins is one of these two (though I would lean toward #4) :

 

3. OOO (original or very old retoning): By your sense of observation, examining the coin, it appears as if it's probably never been dipped, possibly original or

retoned so long ago that it is difficult to tell.

 

4. DNT: Dipped and retoned naturally (and the probably natural

subdivision of this); These coins have been dipped at one point as

evidenced by very thin toning skin and/or centrally clear areas.

Even a 'thick skinned' dipped coin can be easily differentiated by

one that was never dipped, because the dipped coins are just too

clean to be entirely natural. There is nothing wrong with dipping

if done right.

[MBA101]

And most/many always love things like the half and quarter as they feel it's "Pretty." What about this? It's a pcgs image and I cut out the noise around it.....

 

 

I am not much into the dark edge light center sort of look. Not that this is a bad coin or anything, but I prefer a more even tone. Especially when one considers the excessive premium that something like this '08 commands.

[MikeKing]

I don't get the AT vibe on this one. I think's a nice coin, though probably not original, but I am at a dissadvantage, only having pictures to go by. See MikeKing's new Bust half toning post. He made a list of various types of Bust half toning. Per his list, I would say this coins is one of these two (though I would lean toward #4) :

 

3. OOO (original or very old retoning): By your sense of observation, examining the coin, it appears as if it's probably never been dipped, possibly original or

retoned so long ago that it is difficult to tell.

 

4. DNT: Dipped and retoned naturally (and the probably natural

subdivision of this); These coins have been dipped at one point as

evidenced by very thin toning skin and/or centrally clear areas.

Even a 'thick skinned' dipped coin can be easily differentiated by

one that was never dipped, because the dipped coins are just too

clean to be entirely natural. There is nothing wrong with dipping

if done right.

 

coinman, I'm flattered you quoted me from my other post, that some people from New Joisy think is a sign of my insanity....

 

all kidding aside, especially to my friend who thinks I've actually defined the word, it can't be OOO because this coin had to have been dipped in the past and either retoned naturally or artificially. I think it artificial or 'accelerated' but if I'm wrong, at most, its a DNT (dipped and retoned naturally). Reason why I say this is that the central core of the coin is obviously stripped of color and originally toned bust halves...i mean really originally toned...don't tone this way.

 

just my potentially erroneous opinion...hope that helps though

[coinman1794]

I would agree with you that its probably #4 on your list.

 

And your not crazy either, you hit the nail on the head with your categories.

[stman]

Thanks for the replies guys...... the 1808 is obviously not "original" and it's very obvious IMO. Just curious if you guys think it's AT?

[MikeKing]

that's part of that pcgs registry set that is being sold mostly by premiumnumismatics. a lot of nice coins there.

 

could be combo of genuine album toning and a little help beforehand. it's quite 'perfect', almost a little too perfect. but i like the coin anyway. i would take a step back before commiting to it.