Question for Commem Collectors

[keithdagen]

Looking at the upcoming Bowers sale, I see a rare Norse American Gold medal up for auction.

 

Why are the silver medals considered part of a "complete" commem set, but no one mentions the gold medal when talking of a "complete" gold set?

[gmarguli]

The gold is extremely rare and it was also struck in proof unlike the silvers which were struck in mint state. I assume it is not included for the same reason the proof L&C dollars or other proof gold coins are not included. They are extremely rare.

 

I believe the unmelted mintage of the gold is 47 pieces and they are ~$7000 coins. The silver mint state are not part of the set (no points) according to NGC, but many consider them to be needed for a complete commemorative set.

 

I've wanted a gold one for a long time. Hopefully this lightly impaired one will sell for reasonable money? Yeah right...

[keithdagen]

NGC has a non-competitive slot for the Norse gold, but not for the regular issue proofs. Interesting.

 

I find it interesting that a $7,000 coin to use your price is not included for "completion," but you have to have 2 of the $25,000+ Pan-Pac's. If you can afford both of the $50 slugs, odds are you could get a Norse gold medal.

[gmarguli]

With the proof gold coins (L&C, McKinley, etc) there are mint state (non-presentation pieces) that comprise a set. There is no mint state counterpart for the Norse gold. It is only proof. Perhaps that is why they included it in the set?

 

One point about being a "complete set". The Norse silvers used to be considered part of a complete set. The old commemorative albums actually had holes for them. At no point do I ever remember hearing that the Norse gold was required for a complete set. Most people don't even know they exist.

 

Technically they aren't even coins. They're medals. I REALLY want one. I was close to putting a bid on one at an auction. A fellow forum member purchased it instead of me.

[keithdagen]

The irony is that the Norse American pieces would be coins had the sponsors pressed the issue. I read a history somewhere, but I can't remember where, in an older auction catalogue. They settled for medals, not knowing that most coin collectors would be willing to buy the pieces as coins since they had legal tender, but as medals, would not have the same following.

 

They are the issue that "almost was."

[DWLange]

The only reason that the Norse silver medals were included in old coin albums is that Wayte Raymond had a good stock of them for sale. To the best of my knowledge, his own National brand of albums was the only one that included these pieces.

[gmarguli]

I read that also, but I also heard that the public wasn't too pleased with making a coin honoring them and the political response wasn't warm to it either. That's why a medal was created.

 

Either way, I love the coin/medal.

 

I saw a rainbow toned Thin version in a PCGS MS66 slab. They wanted $1600 for it. Beautiful! I wonder if NGC would give the * designation to these medals?

[Clankeye-migration]

An interesting conversation, you guys. Thanks for the information.

[keithdagen]

Found this in the Bass Catalog:

 

Congressman O.J. Kvale of the 7th District, Minneapolis, a member of the Congressional Coin, Weights, and Measures Committee, was instrumental in the production of the Norse American medal series. As early as February 1925, Kvale visited the Treasury Department with his plans for a medal to recognize the accomplishments of the Norse-American settlers in his area of Minnesota. His initial plan called for round medals, but their proposed size would have conflicted with circulating coinage, hence the octagonal format. The silver for these medals was to come from Mint stock, thereby saving the newly formed Norse-American Centennial Commission the cost of procuring silver on the open market. The only cost incurred by the Commission was the production expense for up to 40,000 medals plus the cost of associated dies. On March 2, 1925, Congress authorized the production of 40,000 silver medals and 100 gold medals, all to be produced at the Philadelphia Mint. Records indicate that 39,850 silver and gold pieces were struck in May and June of 1925, 33,750 of which were on "thick" silver planchets, 6,000 on "thin" silver planchets, and 100 pieces on .900 fine gold planchets. The silver pieces were counted, bagged, and shipped to the Fourth Street National Bank of Philadelphia for delivery to the Commission. The cost to the Commission for each piece delivered was 45¢ for the "thick" version, 30¢ for the "thin" version, and $10.14 for the gold version. The Commission then sold the pieces at $1.25 for the "thick" and $1.75 for the "thin." According to an article by Anthony Swiatek in the June 1982 volume of The Numismatist, collector "Max E. Brail of Jackson, Michigan, remembers purchasing the gold specimen for $20 dollars back in 1925." The Centennial Commission retained first strikings of the silver and gold types. Additionally, it is known that Congressman O.J. Kvale received gold medal number two, the second piece struck, in recognition of his services to the commission