A peek into a dealer's viewing of a public coin auction.... updated 5-10

[MarkFeld]

This morning I "viewed" approximately 1600 lots in the St. Louis/Central States Heritage sale. Please understand, that when I say "viewed", that included breezing through many coins which I knew almost immediately were of no interest to me. Reasons for that included factors such as their generic characteristic and/or assigned grade and/or their appearance (i.e. - lack of eye-appeal and/or absence of toning on coins that I prefer toned examples of).

 

Of the approximate 1600 coins I viewed, a number of them on behalf of clients, I liked and noted about 90 of them as lots for potential bids. I later started entering bids on-line and, due either to reserves or bids which I felt were too high, I placed bids on just 40 lots. My total bids were roughly $150,000, and I am currently high bidder on 29 of the 40 coins, to the tune of $100,000. I will probably raise a few bids and enter a few new ones for clients. However, unless this auction is very different from any other I have bid in, by the time it has ended, I will have been outbid on a high percentage of the other items, as well.

 

I don't try to buy cheaply out of auctions, but rather, I look for especially/unusually appealing coins and bid what I feel are fair/realistic prices by which I leave myself a decent chance to end up as high bidder. But alas, there are a few other bidders out there and some of them even like the same types of coins I do. It's a tough way to buy, but in some cases there are opportunities to acquire certain pieces that might not otherwise be available.

 

If this type of real-life glimpse into the dealer side of things is of interest to enough forum member collectors here, I will make an effort to post on other related topics in the future. And if not, not.

[dooly]

Most defonatly mr field that was very intresting...(thumbs up

 

And hears me worring when i bid $150 on a coin

 

i also bid on a number of lots in my local auction room each week but i am lucky as i have a friend porter who will swicth my bids around if i give him a total of how much i can spend and i rate the importance of the lots i am after.. and who is bidding on the lot.. i wish work did not get in the way so i could get to the auctions

 

keep the information comming i am learning every day...

[Dcoin]

Quick question, the coins that you bid on, do you know you have a buyer for them or do you take a chance/educated chance that one will turn up?

 

I'll tell ya... you have to have stones to through down 100G at a shot. More power to you.

[jgrinz]

Posting next door AGAIN aye .. I thought they booted you ..

 

DID THEY MISS YOU

 

SMART MOVE ON THIER PART as I find YOU an invaluable asset to ANY board you PARTAKE!

 

Congrats

[MarkFeld]

Posting next door AGAIN aye .. I thought they booted you ..

 

DID THEY MISS YOU

 

SMART MOVE ON THIER PART as I find YOU an invaluable asset to ANY board you PARTAKE!

 

Congrats

Thank you, but no, I haven't posted on the PCGS forum since (I believe) December. Perhaps you read an old post of mine there?

 

Quick question, the coins that you bid on, do you know you have a buyer for them or do you take a chance/educated chance that one will turn up?

 

I'll tell ya... you have to have stones to through down 100G at a shot. More power to you.

Most of the time I am bidding to acquire coins for inventory, in the hope or expectation that I can sell for a profit. There are frequent occasions, however, when I bid on behalf of clients and in those cases I know the coins are (pre) sold.

 

Bidding hundreds of thousands of dollars in that manner doesn't really take any courage - I know in advance, from experience, that I will only win a fraction of the items I bid on.

 

i am learning every day

That is excellent and must be enjoyable!

[rons]

Thanks for the insight into your world. I get all nervous when I begin to throw around $100 so it is truly mind boggling to see $100,000 being bid. Maybe you can use the journals as a diary and we can see that the life of a dealer isn't all that glamorous, altho it does it have its moments. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

[MunkyMan95]

Reasons for that included factors such as their generic characteristic and/or assigned grade and/or their appearance (i.e. - lack of eye-appeal and/or absence of toning on coins that I prefer toned examples of).

 

Mark don't like widgets!

[MarkFeld]

Reasons for that included factors such as their generic characteristic and/or assigned grade and/or their appearance (i.e. - lack of eye-appeal and/or absence of toning on coins that I prefer toned examples of).

 

Mark don't like widgets!

Funny you should say that, as I had thought about using that very word, but decided not to.

[rrantique]

Great post Mark, enjoyed Thanks

[jom]

Thanks for the post Mark. I pretty much end up doing much the same thing and at the same rough percentages you do. I don't buy for clients nor for "inventory" so it's not a perfect analogy. However, the VAST majority of coins I do view are crapp...plain and simple. With seeing far fewer coins than you I usually only end up with, at most, three coins to bid on.

 

You view many more coins than I do and IMO it is a very difficult task. Having to look at 1500 pieces of crapp in a relatively short period of time can be mind-bending.

 

jom

[rbrown4]

Mark,

 

I definitely think that any information that you can share and or glimpses into the dealer side of things would be very beneficial and of interest to others out here in the forum. I for one am very interested in learning as much as I can about all aspects of the hobby. Purchasing, selling, and all of it plays a role in what each of us is trying to accomplish.

 

Look forward to any posts you may share.

 

Rey

[bsshog40]

That was very interesting Mark. I never looked at bidding on coins in that perspective. I know that you have a lot of knowledge about coins but do you still cringe just a little if something just isn't quite what you want it to be? Do you only bid on for sure coins or is there sometimes any small amount of gamble on any? You seem to invest alot on money so when you talk about auctions, do you just stay with reputable auction dealers and/or do you use ebay? Thanks Mark. Your insight is great to know!

[MikeKing]

I very much appreciate this post, Mark. Thank you.

[JKK]

I find it very interesting, Mark. One measure of the value of any board is the insight and expertise one can find there; this is a prime example.

[123cents]

Enjoyed the report. Thanks Mark.

[TJ'S Coins]

Mark, thanks for the insight on how a dealer approaches an auction on behalf of his clients. I wish you well on the auctions!

[DC Dawg]

I like this... very interesting to read this through the eyes of a dealer. Thanks!

 

I would also be interested in reading a followup... how many did you up your bid on? How many did you win? What did you win, even if it was for a client?

 

Scott

[michael]

 

 

Mark,

 

I definitely think that any information that you can share and or glimpses into the dealer side of things would be very beneficial and of interest to others out here in the forum. I for one am very interested in learning as much as I can about all aspects of the hobby. Purchasing, selling, and all of it plays a role in what each of us is trying to accomplish.

 

Look forward to any posts you may share.

 

 

 

 

please do one of these informational posts once a week or so on a variety of topics also please start to post a market report or your views on the conventions bourses you go to!!!..........................it does help me and i am sure some others

 

[comicAL]

Hi, Mark

 

Yes, I enjoyed your experienced Coin Retailer's approach to the major auctions of coins.

 

I find it fascinating and an eye-opener that only a fraction of the lots are worth viewing by you, let alone bidding on them!

 

By the way, thank you for not using the "w" word, boy that word does rubs me the wrong way!

 

AAJ

[MarkFeld]

Update after 1st session - 14 bids totalling roughly $38,000; 4 wins (one of them for a client) totalling about $11,000.

[MarkFeld]

That was very interesting Mark. I never looked at bidding on coins in that perspective. I know that you have a lot of knowledge about coins but do you still cringe just a little if something just isn't quite what you want it to be? Do you only bid on for sure coins or is there sometimes any small amount of gamble on any? You seem to invest alot on money so when you talk about auctions, do you just stay with reputable auction dealers and/or do you use ebay? Thanks Mark. Your insight is great to know!

I try to avoid pre-sale expectations based upon catalog descriptions, images or comments by others. So, I don't set myself up for disappointments. I do, however, occasionally "cringe" when I see a coin which I feel is (very) badly over-graded and/or particularly hideous looking.

 

Yes, there is risk involved, though I am generally fairly conservative in that regard. I typically bid only in major auctions and rarely bid/buy via Ebay (as I believe that in the vast majority of cases, sight-unseen bidding is unwise).

 

Thanks to everyone for your nice comments and I will post another update or two after subsequent sessions.

[cpm9ball]

Mark, I'm curious about one aspect of the client/dealer relationship. When you are bidding for a client who is looking for a certain coin, how do you arrive at the max bid? Is this set by the client, or do you offer advice to help the client determine how much to bid? Is it given that the client should expect to pay a "premium" added to the final cost for your services?

 

Also, you stated that you placed bids for about $150K, but you don't expect to win all of them. Let's suppose that you did! As a rule, what are the terms of sale? For high-dollar amounts like this, does the auction house offer deferred payment options like "10-day Net" or even "30-Day Net"? In other words, are you permitted to place an earnest money deposit and complete the transaction within a reasonable period of time? What are the normal payment options that are available? Pay Pal? Is each auction lot treated individually, or does the house allow you to withhold payment for each individual transaction until you're finished? I've never participated in one of the big auctions and I'd like to know how they handle these things.

 

I hope you will continue to post on sublects like this. Thanks for the insight!

 

Chris

[jom]

I do, however, occasionally "cringe" when I see a coin which I feel is (very) badly over-graded and/or particularly hideous looking.

 

I cringe when I see a NICE coin that is badly overgraded. Say, an MS63 that would be a perfect fit at that price but is then in a 64 holder at a much higher price. Or with some FH or FB designation that is unwarrented.

 

jom

[leeg]

I alway's appreciate your thoughts and comments on anything numismatic. I've got one bid on an item tonight in Session 3. I look forward to reading all your posts.

[MikeInFL]

Great thread, can't wait to see the conclusion....Mike

[bsshog40]

Thanks for your comments and answers Mark. I look foward to the follow-ups!

[MarkFeld]

Mark, I'm curious about one aspect of the client/dealer relationship. When you are bidding for a client who is looking for a certain coin, how do you arrive at the max bid? Is this set by the client, or do you offer advice to help the client determine how much to bid? Is it given that the client should expect to pay a "premium" added to the final cost for your services?

 

Also, you stated that you placed bids for about $150K, but you don't expect to win all of them. Let's suppose that you did! As a rule, what are the terms of sale? For high-dollar amounts like this, does the auction house offer deferred payment options like "10-day Net" or even "30-Day Net"? In other words, are you permitted to place an earnest money deposit and complete the transaction within a reasonable period of time? What are the normal payment options that are available? Pay Pal? Is each auction lot treated individually, or does the house allow you to withhold payment for each individual transaction until you're finished? I've never participated in one of the big auctions and I'd like to know how they handle these things.

 

I hope you will continue to post on sublects like this. Thanks for the insight!

 

Chris

Chris, if I am bidding for a client, arriving at a maximum bid can be a joint effort between the two of us, or the client's sole decision, whichever he prefers. Far more often than not, it's the former, but some clients do determine their maximum bids on their own.

 

When I examine lots and provide feedback for a client, if he doesn't end up bidding (or having me bid on his behalf), I don't charge anything for my time. Ditto for when a bid is placed but it's unsuccessful. Generally speaking, I charge 5% of hammer as commission when bids are successful. However, there are many exceptions when I charge less, such in the cases of particularly high value coins. Likewise, a few clients have generously paid me for my efforts, even when their bids were unsuccessful, even though I didn't want them to.

 

I'm not a good source for answering questions about extended payment terms offered by auction houses because I have always chosen the standard/shorter time for payment without interest. If I had somehow, shockingly won $150,000 worth of coins, I would have written a (good) check for that amount. Generally, depending upon which auction house is involved, buyers are allowed somewhere between 14 days and 30 days to pay, with no interest charge involved.

 

Beyond whatever that standard time period is, there can be an option such as an extra 30 days at 1% per month interest, for example. Both the amount of extra time and the interest charge can vary, depending upon factors such as prevailing interest rates, the amount of money spent by the buyer, his relationship with the auction house, etc.

[toyonakataro]

Looking forward to see your newps

[MarkFeld]

Update #2:

 

Last night I had bids on 22 coins and won 7 of them (with a few apparent just-misses), totaling approximately $55,000. It turns out that all of the wins were for a client. Here is the prize of the group:

 

 

 

I would like to add that the client has not seen the above coin in person, and I take extremely seriously the responsibility to spend his money based upon his trust and confidence in me. I would have an impossible time entrusting someone to buy coins for me in that manner, so I very much appreciate what he and other clients allow me to do.

[cpm9ball]

Update #2:

 

Last night I had bids on 22 coins and won 7 of them (with a few apparent just-misses), totaling approximately $55,000. It turns out that all of the wins were for a client. Here is the prize of the group:

 

 

 

I would like to add that the client has not seen the above coin in person, and I take extremely seriously the responsibility to spend his money based upon his trust and confidence in me. I would have an impossible time entrusting someone to buy coins for me in that manner, so I very much appreciate what he and other clients allow me to do.

 

Beautiful coin, Mark! I notice that the denticles at 1:30 on the obverse look close together. Is that because of an abnormality on the die or a hit along the rim? Also, the denticles on the reverse almost look like dots from about 10:00 to 3:00 and those from 3:00 to 10:00 are longer. I don't collect gold, so I don't know if it is a variety or something else.

 

Chris