Victor, I'm sorry...

[HaydenTubbs]

To everyone on the boards, I figured that public apology was in need for both Victor and the rest of you.

Victor, you were correct in all of your allegations. I never meant to rip you off or treat you this way and my actions were most unacceptable.

I wanted to do this submission/sale to help you out, but I succeeded in acting in the most stupid way possible and screwing everything up. I did a lot of stupid things in the past year and they're still coming back to haunt me. In this situation the smallest things I could have done could have changed this whole situation to have turned out for the best for both of us. Just looking back over the many times that I put something off, I realize how stupid I've been. I put off sending the coin,put off auctioning it,and then on top of that if I had just communicated with you even through PMs I could have changed all of this. I don't know why I've been so stupid with my lack of communication and I hate myself for it. I mailed out your check a day before you posted the thread concerning my actions,and if I had just PM'd you to let you know that I had mailed out the check things might have been much different. After I saw your thread I shied away from the boards out of shame,and while I knew that I needed to apologize to you, I couldn't bring myself to face you. It wasn't until today that I finally read your PM and looked at your post. Honestly Victor, I don't know how I could have been so stupid. It just seems that it's something I'm particularly good at and there are so many things I've done over the past few years that I wish I could take back.

So Victor, I'm not asking for your forgiveness. I don't deserve it. I'll I want you to know is that I acknowledge that I was wrong, terribly wrong,and I wish I could go back and undo it all.

 

To my fellow forum members,I don't quite know what to say. I've built up trust with many of you, only to screw it all up with this. Please forgive me.

 

 

Hayden

[dooly]

Well done it takes a real man to stand up and admit what you have in this post, most would have slinked in to the shaddows..

 

i have never delt with you and i am new to the board and i dont know the "full story" & a may get slated for this post BUT i must have my 2p because i did comment on the post re- this problem

 

dooly

[pendragon1998]

Hayden,

 

I read your apology and I believe it to be sincere. We've had no dealings, you and I, so I really don't have anything to forgive you for personally, but if you re-establish a track record of honest dealings I would be willing to cautiously transact with you. Trust, but verify, as Reagan said. I can deeply appreciate what it takes to make a public apology like that one, and I believe in forgiveness when it is requested humbly.

 

Edited to add: This thread deserved much more than the one star the first person rated it as.

[Dcoin]

Like Dooly, I'm still kinda new but it takes onions to lay it all out like that. You may not earn the trust back so fast, but its a step in the right direction.

[EZ_E]

Hayden, I definitely forgive you and never was mad at you. I think that I was more disappointed than anything. It saddened me to see you muck things up so much. I know that your apology is sincere but you were sincere in your other apologies I read via links to the other side. I would encourage you to do a soul search and fix what is wrong.

 

You are very right! A PM would have avoided this whole mess. I would never have posted the thread if that were the case. You must admit that I was very patient with you over many months. Communication is very important. Carrying out one's responsibility is very important. Honesty and integrity should matter more than anything else. That is essential to developing true character.

 

I do know that you have alot going on in your life right now and I understand that. Still, it doesn't take much to write a simple PM to communicate what is going on with a business transaction.

 

I do wish you the best, Hayden. But, unfortunately, you have lots of damage control to perform to restore your credibility.

 

Arch, please delete the "Caveat-Hayden Tubbs" thread since it does show up on a google search. I do not think this is fair at this point to Hayden. Thanks.

[TomB]

Hayden, I am hesitant to post to this thread, but I wanted to share with you how an otherwise unaffected third party might view this entire episode.

 

The apology is "nice" and definitely appears sincere, however, you have been down at least a somewhat similar road previously with an apology thread on the PCGS boards that was generally well-received and that appeared to perform exactly as intended. Additionally, although every situation is different, you seem to have had more than your random or bad luck share of drama and sour deals on these two boards. As someone who has not been involved with any of these conflicts and who has not been inconvenienced or otherwise disappointed, I can tell you that, at least in this corner, there are no free passes, pats on the back or other good words.

 

You are what you do; not what you say you will do and not what you profess to strive for in the future. As an unaffected board member who has simply read these threads over the last few years in real-time, and then briefly read them again upon this latest interaction, I can tell you that I do not believe you are a bad person and I do not believe your intentions are less than honorable. Of course, at the same time I will tell you that although I will help you with any information you might need regarding numismatic issues, I would, in my opinion only, be foolish to trust you with any tangible task.

 

I wish you well and hope that you continue to participate and that all of your interactions, communications and transactions are positive for all involved, but it may be a long time, if ever, for the doors that you have perhaps closed to be opened up again to you. Lastly, I believe it a mistake to remove a thread if it is fact-based and might help others avoid trauma or loss. It may be a "feel-good" thing to do, but if Victor had been more aware of your previous history he may have perhaps saved himself considerable angst and time.

[WinstonWare]

You are what you do; not what you say you will do and not what you profess to strive for in the future

Agree with Tom here

[ldhair]

It's much too late to delete the truth.

The threads should stay as a guide to others.

[just-john]

Everybody should sit in a circle hold hands and sing Kumbayh.Then get in the bus and go play bingo with the rest of the ------

[michael]

 

Re: Victor, I'm sorry... [Re: HaydenTubbs]

#1765615 - Tue Apr 24 2007 10:17 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

 

 

 

Hayden, I am hesitant to post to this thread, but I wanted to share with you how an otherwise unaffected third party might view this entire episode.

 

The apology is "nice" and definitely appears sincere, however, you have been down at least a somewhat similar road previously with an apology thread on the PCGS boards that was generally well-received and that appeared to perform exactly as intended. Additionally, although every situation is different, you seem to have had more than your random or bad luck share of drama and sour deals on these two boards. As someone who has not been involved with any of these conflicts and who has not been inconvenienced or otherwise disappointed,

 

I can tell you that, at least in this corner, there are no free passes, pats on the back or other good words.

 

You are what you do; not what you say you will do and not what you profess to strive for in the future.

 

As an unaffected board member who has simply read these threads over the last few years in real-time, and then briefly read them again upon this latest interaction, I can tell you that I do not believe you are a bad person and I do not believe your intentions are less than honorable. Of course, at the same time I will tell you that although I will help you with any information you might need regarding numismatic issues, I would, in my opinion only, be foolish to trust you with any tangible task.

 

I wish you well and hope that you continue to participate and that all of your interactions, communications and transactions are positive for all involved, but it may be a long time, if ever, for the doors that you have perhaps closed to be opened up again to you. Lastly, I believe it a mistake to remove a thread if it is fact-based and might help others avoid trauma or loss. It may be a "feel-good" thing to do,

 

but if Victor had been more aware of your previous history he may have perhaps saved himself considerable angst and time.

[michael]

Hayden,

 

 

many many excuses and many times this has repeated itself many times over and over again

 

many have treated you much better

 

 

i would not ever do any business with you

 

i would rather give my money to the homeless orphan children whom i help to give them a better life than a spoiled lying repeat offender like yourself.....BUT TIME TO CHANGE AND DO THIS NO MORE THEN FAITH WILL BE RESTORED WITH MANY maybe most all

[michael]

your sorry are just words and you have said this over and over and yet your actions speak differently

 

maybe time will prove you a better person....

[James_OldeTowne]

I know nothing of the transaction between Hayden and Victor. The only thing I can say is that I have dealt with Hayden on at least three occasions over the course of some time with excellent success. Therefore, for me, there is some track record of honest and ethical behavior that must counterbalance, at least to some extent, recent mistakes.

 

"Mistakes" are not in themselves necessarily "bad". It's how the mistakes are addressed that matters.

[bsshog40]

"To err is human, To forgive devine!!

[jgrinz]

"To err is human, To forgive devine!!

 

I have dealt with Hayden once as he purchased something from me via Ebay and was quick with response AND payment.

 

I think the MAJOR point here is "like a child" who does not learn - When do you turn your back after repeated offenses. I have read all the related matter involved both here and across the street and this is seeming to me to be a habitual problem with Mr Tubbs.

 

I think there will be a LONG term problem for some to deal with him again.

 

You can fogive but in my experience 'people never forget'

[bsshog40]

"To err is human, To forgive devine!!

 

I have dealt with Hayden once as he purchased something from me via Ebay and was quick with response AND payment.

 

I think the MAJOR point here is "like a child" who does not learn - When do you turn your back after repeated offenses. I have read all the related matter involved both here and across the street and this is seeming to me to be a habitual problem with Mr Tubbs.

 

I think there will be a LONG term problem for some to deal with him again.

 

You can fogive but in my experience 'people never forget'

 

Hey Mike, I completely understand where you and everyone else that has experienced any type of negative dealings here is coming from. I have not dealt with this person nor do I know him. I'm sure that if I had, and it turned out bad, that it would more than likely shy me away from any future dealings also. My comment was merely emphasizing to live and learn, turn the other cheek,and continue on with life and don't dwell on the past. We all learn from our mistakes, some people just have to make more than others before the lesson is learned.

[jom]

I'm happy to see that Hayden has at least come in and took the hits. You'll have to be patient...possibly for a long time...to restore credibility. Maybe you can just forgo the sales of coins and just post stuff you buy or comment in the forums. That should be OK I'd think...

 

I'm glad Victor is satisfied or at least vindicated.

 

I'm a bit surprised at Michael's harsh words but each are entitled to their opinion. If Hayden reads that I hope he understands that some people are just more forgiving that others...that's just the way it is in life.

 

I think the other thread (and this one) should be kept as TomB pointed out.

 

This is the 2nd well-liked member here (recently) that seems to have gotten into trouble and it does distress me a bit. I don't know why this is happening NOW but I hope it doesn't continue.

 

jom

[michael]

I'm a bit surprised at Michael's harsh words but each are entitled to their opinion. If Hayden reads that I hope he understands that some people are just more forgiving that others...that's just the way it is in life.

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

well doktor

 

has nothing to do with harsh words or my opinion straight up,,,,,,,,,,,,, facts and actions are the only thing that matters........................

 

i recommended this little ant when many made fun of him on the pcgs boards a few years back when he first started and i told many to give him a chance and i stuck up for him and gave my word he was okie and good

 

well this does not help my word or integrity ......... as i would never do anything like hayden did nor even close

 

so get the whole story before making false claims

 

promises were made by hayden to me that he would treat everyone as he would like to be treaTED and he never kept any of them

 

 

bad for coins and the hobby in general

 

put that in your pipe and smoke it

 

all you got is your word and integrity without that you got nothing in coins or whatever

[ldhair]

your sorry are just words and you have said this over and over and yet your actions speak differently

 

maybe time will prove you a better person....

To me this is what it is all about.

Sorry only works a few times with me.

I have seen this type of stuff too many times in this great hobby and it seems to always finally end with someone getting screwed over.

[jom]

has nothing to do with harsh words or my opinion straight up,,,,,,,,,,,,, facts and actions are the only thing that matters..

 

I don't quite understand the venom here however it is still your point of view so in a manner of speaking it IS your opinion. Each person is entitled to that...you had a different circumstance in this situation (as did Victor) so a different reaction is expected. However, I find it wrong to tell ME the type of reaction I "should" have. So it does boil down to an "opinion" whether you like it or not.

 

i recommended this little ant when many made fun of him on the pcgs boards a few years back when he first started and i told many to give him a chance and i stuck up for him and gave my word he was okie and good

 

well this does not help my word or integrity ......... as i would never do anything like hayden did nor even close

 

No, it didn't and as I said above different people have different points of view. However, I'd bet no one blames you WHATSOEVER for this. All of the blame will be put on Hayden's shoulders. I don't think your rep was or will be hurt at all.

 

and he never kept any of them

 

Evidently, there have been several people who had good deals with Hayden so "never" is inaccurate.

 

so get the whole story before making false claims

put that in your pipe and smoke it

 

These are directed toward ME? If so, sorry...but I don't smoke.

 

bad for coins and the hobby in general

 

True but I can find a ton of crapp that goes on that is far worse...unfortunately. However, your statement is correct obviously.

 

jom