eBay must be teeming with IDI0TS - they cancelled yet another of my auctions

[James_OldeTowne]

Here's an image of the listing:

 

 

... and eBay's brilliant decision to remove it:

 

Dear earlyus,

 

You recently listed the following auction-style listing:

 

330110423576 - Eleven world "replica" coins, NOT "COUNTERFEIT", 1cNR

 

The auction-style listing was removed because it violated the eBay Counterfeit Currency and Stamps policy. All fees related to this listing have been credited to your account. We also notified members who placed bids on the item that the listing has

been canceled.

 

In most countries around the world, including the U.S., it's illegal to sell counterfeit currency and stamps, as well as the equipment designed to make these items. For this reason, listings for these items are not permitted on eBay.

 

However, sellers *can* list a "reproduction," "replica," or "copy" coin (U.S. or foreign). The Hobby Protection Act requires that these coins be clearly and permanently marked ("incused") with the word "COPY." This protects collectors against fraud and confusion.

 

For more information on the eBay Counterfeit Currency and Stamps policy, please visit:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html

 

Please note: violation of this or other eBay policies may result in forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings, limits on account privileges and account suspension.

 

To review eBay's list of Prohibited, Questionable, and Infringing items, please visit:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item_allowed.html

 

For more information on why eBay may remove a auction-style listing, please visit:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/listing-ended.html

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

Sincerely,

 

eBay Trust & Safety

 

Meanwhile, of course, fake Trade dollars without the word "copy" continue to abound on eBay.

[rbrown4]

Unbelievalbe, it is clear to anyone with common sense as to what you were selling. A shame that the truly dishonest ones on Ebay are not dealt with as efficiently.

 

Rey

[Bruceswar]

WOW, That is truly sad. What a joke that they cancelled it.

[okbustchaser]

The problem is that you insulted the Chinese counterfeits that supply fees to Ebay.

[DC Dawg]

If these were produced before the passage of the Hobby Protection Act, then they are exempt from being stamped since the Act has no grandfather clause.

 

But you are right... they apply their policies unevenly. I had a bunch of auctions cancelled because I had the word "cash" as an option for payment. I wasn't promoting the use of cash, but some would send it anyway. I just added the one world to a list of options and they cancelled my auctions. I guess after over 1000 positive feedbacks and two negatives in over 8 years on ebay, I was going to scam someone out of the three dollars they paid for their 1940-S Lincoln Cent!

 

Scott

[bsshog40]

It's too bad they can't catch the rip-off artists on here instead of the ones trying to be legit with thier auctions!

[cpm9ball]

James, the problem is that you are too honest! Only the crook-bayers can get away with it.

 

Chris

[123cents]

James, the problem is that you are too honest! Only the crook-bayers can get away with it.

 

Chris

 

I agree.

[pendragon1998]

Probably an automated software thing that searches for any listings including the word

"counterfeit" and automatically bumps them off.

 

Sucks though

[Zoins]

Probably an automated software thing that searches for any listings including the word "counterfeit" and automatically bumps them off.

I doubt it's completely automatic because the description does mention COPY which is required under eBay policy and the Hobby Protection Act. The HPA seems to only require COPY for manufacture and importation but eBay seems to require it for anything you sell.

 

Technically, COPY may be required for all the pieces under eBay's TOS but a lot of people get around this. As mentioned above it probably depends on how honest you are as well as how much you leave out of the description. There's probably some art to writing successful eBay descriptions for imitation numismatic items without the COPY requirement.

[ant]

i am to understand that china is not charged to sell on the bay. there for they r making no money accept for the paypal fee. maybe they need to go through classes to find other fakes. like the infomous trade dollars being stamped out like clothing in china. the only 1s they seem to close r the honest people that clearly put "not genuine" or " replica" .

 

i myself have had coins come back from ngc as" altered " does that meen they were forged or does it just meen something miniscule.

 

ebay needs to start paying atention to what is going on underthere nose, cause when the government comes in and starts to take taxxes (which they r trying to do ) they will loose 60%+ of there revenue and or sellers.

[Zoins]

i myself have had coins come back from ngc as" altered " does that meen they were forged or does it just meen something miniscule.

I believe altered means a genuine coin that has been modified. This may be done intentionally to trick someone like altering a date or adding/removing a mintmark. In this case, the HPA requires the altered original coin to be marked COPY because it can purport to be a different original numismatic item. In other cases, I've seen NCS slab potty dollars which are obviously altered and not intended to fool anyone.

[cpm9ball]

James, why don't you find a tool & die maker in your area who can produce a steel punch with "COPY" on it? Then you can stamp all of them yourself.

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

James, why don't you find a tool & die maker in your area who can produce a steel punch with "COPY" on it? Then you can stamp all of them yourself.

 

Chris

That would make the coins less collectible, though. It would be like going to a coin museum, taking all of the legitimate electrotypes of rare and unique large-cents, and stamping them.

[cpm9ball]

James, why don't you find a tool & die maker in your area who can produce a steel punch with "COPY" on it? Then you can stamp all of them yourself.

 

Chris

That would make the coins less collectible, though. It would be like going to a coin museum, taking all of the legitimate electrotypes of rare and unique large-cents, and stamping them.

 

I should have used an emoticon. I wasn't serious and I knew you wouldn't do something like that.

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

James, why don't you find a tool & die maker in your area who can produce a steel punch with "COPY" on it? Then you can stamp all of them yourself.

 

Chris

That would make the coins less collectible, though. It would be like going to a coin museum, taking all of the legitimate electrotypes of rare and unique large-cents, and stamping them.

 

I should have used an emoticon. I wasn't serious and I knew you wouldn't do something like that.

 

Chris

I would if it were a miserable Morgan dollar !

[DC Dawg]

i myself have had coins come back from ngc as" altered " does that meen they were forged or does it just meen something miniscule.

I believe altered means a genuine coin that has been modified. This may be done intentionally to trick someone like altering a date or adding/removing a mintmark. In this case, the HPA requires the altered original coin to be marked COPY because it can purport to be a different original numismatic item. In other cases, I've seen NCS slab potty dollars which are obviously altered and not intended to fool anyone.

Again, the HPA does not have a grandfather clause. There are a number of coins from the 60s and 70s that are copies but not required to be marked as such. How does eBay deal with those coins?

[LuvToCollect]

Fake China coins are ok but yours aren't, go figure. There has to be a moral in there somewhere.

[Zoins]

Again, the HPA does not have a grandfather clause. There are a number of coins from the 60s and 70s that are copies but not required to be marked as such. How does eBay deal with those coins?

From eBay's TOS:

Any "reproduction," "replica," or "copy" coin (U.S. or foreign) must be plainly and permanently marked with the word COPY.

I don't work for eBay so I don't know their policies aside from what they have written, however, just because something may be possibly legal under the HPA does not necessarily mean eBay will allow it on their site. It's possible eBay may error on the side of caution or it's possible that it's random but it is their site and their rules. They can be more strict than the HPA if they choose to be. If they have a more strict interpretation, you may have to try to convince them you're right if it's really important to you, but at the end of the day it's their site and they can make their rules, not necessarily allow everything that could arguably be legal under the HPA.

 

The reality is that unless a pre-HPA replica is slabbed by NGC, eBay doesn't really know when it was made. If they don't know when it was made, it may make sense for them to error on the side of safety and require COPY for all replicas. Of course, this is an area the ANA could get involved in to provide experts to help eBay determine whether a replica is pre or post-HPA.

 

As I mentioned, I don't work for eBay so this is just speculation.

[Zoins]

Fake China coins are ok but yours aren't, go figure. There has to be a moral in there somewhere.

Fake China coins are not ok. If they are identified as fakes and do not say COPY they are removed. EBay works with the ANA to authenticate coins so perhaps the ANA needs to do a better job of identifying the fakes for eBay?

 

The issue here is the coins are identified as replicas but do not say COPY. If James wanted to list his copies under the radar like some fake Chinese coins, he wouldn't identify them as replicas without COPY.

[James_OldeTowne]

I don't work for eBay so I don't know their policies aside from what they have written, however, just because something may be possibly legal under the HPA does not necessarily mean eBay will allow it on their site. It's possible eBay may error on the side of caution or it's possible that it's random but it is their site and their rules.

 

I don't disagree with your stance at all. The problem is the stunning level of inconsistency. I offer my cheap coin copies, plainly identified as such, and my auction listing gets cancelled. Meanwhile, an astounding number of blatantly fake, altered and flat-out counterfeit coins sell (or at least, are listed) on eBay every single day. It isn't just coins, either. There are fake items in nearly every category, including fake MicroSoft software, fake designer clothes, fake art, fake auto parts and fake autographs.

 

It would be one thing if these fakes were so good that they fooled experts, but when fake items can be identifed from a low-quality image, you'd think there would be some effort on eBay's part to stop those auctions. It doesn't take a lot of competence to identify even half the fake coins on eBay!

[Zoins]

I'm not defending eBay but does anyone think they might not like this line:

they are not the cheap Chinese fakes you see on eBay all the time.

Perhaps they would feel better if the line didn't say "on eBay"? Is criticizing eBay against eBay's TOS?

[bsshog40]

Fake China coins are ok but yours aren't, go figure. There has to be a moral in there somewhere.

Fake China coins are not ok. If they are identified as fakes and do not say COPY they are removed. EBay works with the ANA to authenticate coins so perhaps the ANA needs to do a better job of identifying the fakes for eBay?

 

The issue here is the coins are identified as replicas but do not say COPY. If James wanted to list his copies under the radar like some fake Chinese coins, he wouldn't identify them as replicas without COPY.

 

First of all, I do agree with you to a certain extent. Ebay can do what they want. They are a privately owned business. I do see James's point also. He is stating that these coins are replicas. If ebay is working hard with the ANA, it seems that these china coins would be attacked more. They are so popular, we have a grading system for them on our own forum. I really don't understand why ebay did what they did when the auction clearly stated replicas. This describes to me what these coins are, and I see no reason why anyone wouldn't know that these are not real. I don't think there is any deception in this auction. Lot of others that do go by tho'. IMHO

[James_OldeTowne]

I'm not defending eBay but does anyone think they might not like this line:

they are not the cheap Chinese fakes you see on eBay all the time.

Perhaps they would feel better if the line didn't say "on eBay"? Is criticizing eBay against eBay's TOS?

Good point!

[AuldFartte-migration]

Get a P.O. box in China, list 'em without any reference to being replicas, and sleaze-bay will let 'em go through (*insert sarcasm emoticon here*)