Let's have an outing party!

[EZ_E]

Forum minds would like to know about all of those shady characters in forum-land who have proven themselves to be unreliable, irresponsible and just plain shady in their numismatic dealings. I have received numerous PM's from fellow boardsters relating their stories of delinquent payments, fraudulent transactions and negative experiences with individuals. I think that the public has the right to know.

 

Maybe the tone of my posts today has been flavored with intolerance but I am getting tired of the change in direction the boards have been taking lately.

 

I have always stated that the NGC boards has been a microcosm from the real world evidencing some of the finest people I have ever met in my life. I have the utmost respect for many of the registered users on these boards. I would like for it to stay that way.

[Stanley]

.

[michael]

Forum minds would like to know about all of those shady characters in forum-land who have proven themselves to be unreliable, irresponsible and just plain shady in their numismatic dealings. I have received numerous PM's from fellow boardsters relating their stories of delinquent payments, fraudulent transactions and negative experiences with individuals. I think that the public has the right to know.

 

Maybe the tone of my posts today has been flavored with intolerance but I am getting tired of the change in direction the boards have been taking lately.

 

I have always stated that the NGC boards has been a microcosm from the real world evidencing some of the finest people I have ever met in my life. I have the utmost respect for many of the registered users on these boards. I would like for it to stay that way.

 

 

[MikeKing]

I see your point, and it is a good one, but not one without danger of incriminating or defaming an innocent individual.

 

I think the way things have been going on the boards, issues with people and auction firms, when backed with factual experience, are legitimate and rightful to express, both for the experience and letting others know that the path they are taking with a particular individual or organisation could have potential not based on their own personal experiences, but the reality of the experiences of others.

 

Perhaps NGC board could have an ethics statement that is spelled out, a reccommended one, as a guide for collectors.

 

And perhaps it may not be libelous to name names of people for which the evidence is overwhelming e.g., don't return a coin given to them on approval, or not paying for a coin you sold them or not sending you the coin that you paid for, since these behaviors represent actual theft.

 

I don't know if it's within or without of the scope of the board to do something like this. I'm only saying this to protect you, and others with similar concerns

 

Perhaps there could be a well thought out venue for this, in the good faith effort of protecting the community at large.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Bruceswar]

Post Changed to say If you want some answers on people please PM me.

[Stanley]

.

[Bruceswar]

Stanley you are one of the good guys I missed! Sorry about that!! There is alot of good people on this board. While we have not dealt(yet) anyhow I would let you borrow my coins for a week and know they would return safely!

[Stanley]

Thank you Bruce

[Bruceswar]

That is one thing I can tell from your post. Were you not working on a 1943 Mint set? I have a NGC 1945 S Quarter that would go great with that set.

[Stanley]

Yes I was working on a 1943 set and I don’t believe I will pursue any more date sets for they are too much hassle.

[Wihlborg]

BTW I’m actually only hanging around briefly to defend my honor for I have already been insulted both directly and indirectly enough to where I do not feel welcomed here not do I feel like a part of this community.

 

Stan,

 

I am truly bothered that you feel this way. I know that I have not had many direct exchanges with you on the board, but I have always liked your contributions and based upon them I have always thought of you as a really nice person. I don’t know who insulted you or in what way, but it would be a shame to let it keep you from continuing to post here.

 

Remember, you have just as much right to share your thoughts and opinions here as anyone else. Hell, if the few bad apples run off all the good guys this place won’t be any better then some other forums.

 

Stick around, I’ll talk to you anytime you want.

 

John

[Bruceswar]

John he was referring to my post, in which I had left him off my list by accident. Corrected now. All is well.

[James_OldeTowne]

Maybe the tone of my posts today has been flavored with intolerance but I am getting tired of the change in direction the boards have been taking lately.

EZ_E, I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties regarding other board members. I can say that the past several months have been quite pleasing personally dealing with other board members, and to be honest, I think that the NGC boards have drastically improved in terms of participation and educational value over the part couple of years. We seem to have quite a few more substantive and intelligent contributors.

 

I just hope we can always keep separate in our minds the "NGC boards" from a couple of negative individuals. Bad things can happen in a good environment, but overall, I have to give the boards a big .

[pendragon1998]

Well, I'm probably on the "negative individuals" list of some of you right now, but here's a few of my better experiences:

 

Sold to (and would sell to again):

Ez_E

Shuckins (PCGS board)

MillerTime (PCGS board)

RNCHSN (PCGS board)

 

Bought from (and would buy from again):

gmarguli (in a heartbeat)

LordMarcovan (PCGS board)

cartwheel (PCGS board)

ScottB

musky1011 (PCGS board)

cullenbryant (trade; PCGS board)

meadecollectables (eBay - great prices on airtites)

hobbysuppliescom (eBay - great for dansco albums)

 

 

On my general "good list" (not all-inclusive, sorry if I miss you):

TomB

Bruceswar

James_EarlyUS

Hoot

astrostu

jgrinz

cpm9ball

supertooth

kryptonitecomics

stanley

michael

MarkFeld

winstonware

IGWT

 

People I decline to do business with:

(this list could be much bigger, but I continue to interact with some of those people on a non-transaction level.

Jazzy (now defunct)

Phillster (PCGS board)

mel_07

luskie

truthteller

rjcasale1010 (eBay)

[IGWT]

No good will come from this endeavor. If you want to start drawing up lists of who's in and who's out, my enthusiasm for participating here will dwindle.

[pendragon1998]

I don't think there's a problem with having a list of people who have had a good transaction with you.

 

I think having a list of people who have had been bad experiences is also useful, but it pays to be more judicious with that sort of list.

[bsshog40]

Well I don't have anyone on my bad list. I have only dealt with a couple members here, so all I have is a good list (as for transactions):

 

monkeyman

jesbroken

ibuyandsellsmith

 

So far, I've not met anyone I don't care for. Maybe some comments, but not individulas!!!

[WinstonWare]

I’m hesitant to list whom I trust because I’m worried that I would forget someone. I would feel terribly if I did that.

 

To my knowledge there have only been two incidents since I joined here over a year and a half ago (hayden & jazzy). To me, that’s really not all that bad considering the amount of transactions that take place.

 

Folks should feel free to PM me if they have questions about an individual but my reply might be simply that I do not know.

[jgrinz]

I too will not list as it will alienate those who have NO transactions with any one but may Positively participate to the board

[pendragon1998]

Just because I haven't had a transaction with you doesn't mean I won't have one. Those that jgrinz mentions are free to transact - if they do so positively, they'll eventually end up on a list like these.

[Architecht]

I'd focus on a kudos thread. It's better for the community.

 

Like this one:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...e=0&fpart=1

[dooly]

I would like to OUT myself for a very poor transaction with jgrinz on eBay which he was a Star about

 

because i am very new to the site i will not pass any comment on others.

 

except for Muckyman who i have a little "fun" with and i have found him very trustworthy (ps is the box on its way ) and a great person..

 

also thanks to the other members who have PM'd me and made me feel welcome

 

Ps if i am posting stuff which is i would prefer it if people told me, than let it fester...

 

 

all the best dooly

[Bruceswar]

No good will come from this endeavor. If you want to start drawing up lists of who's in and who's out, my enthusiasm for participating here will dwindle.

 

Lou does make a good point. People will use this as a chance to single people out. I did not think of this point when I made my list out. There are many people on the list I forgot. Sorry to those guys. In an effort to keep it clean and neat. I will pull my post.

[pendragon1998]

I'm sorry, but I don't see what the problem is with singling people out - for good or for bad. If someone did a stellar job, they should be noted for it so that their good reputation helps their business. If someone screwed someone else over, it should also be noted, provided the reporter is factual. I'd want to know, for example, about Hayden's reputation if I was considering doing business with him.

[Stanley]

Edited mine

[bsshog40]

Mine's all good. I'm stayin'

[IGWT]

I'm sorry, but I don't see what the problem is with singling people out - for good or for bad. If someone did a stellar job, they should be noted for it so that their good reputation helps their business. If someone screwed someone else over, it should also be noted, provided the reporter is factual. I'd want to know, for example, about Hayden's reputation if I was considering doing business with him.

 

(1) The responses to the OP were broader than a list of people with whom specific transactions were either good or bad. They included a list of perceived "good guys," wrongly implying (despite attempts to disclaim) that folks not included are deficient in some way.

 

(2) I've lived long enough to know that there are at least two sides to every story. Calling someone out will invite a response in kind, and soon the forum will be awash in disputes, with none of us really in a position to know who's right and who's wrong.

 

(3) It's risky to take the word of anyone you know only through the Internet. This rule applies equally to someone who reports a bad deal with someone else. For example, you report that you'll never work with Truthteller again. With all due respect, I don't know you except through your participation here. I'm not sure why I should take your word at face value any sooner than someone else's. And, just to keep this even, why on earth would someone take my word over yours?

 

(4) This risk also exists in relying on "good" reports. There's not much value in reports by a few people who have purchased one or two coins from a particular person. Just ask the people who've been burned by formerly Respected Forum Members™. Lots of people have been made to look silly by vouching for people whom they don't really know.

 

And that's just a start . . . .

[MunkyMan95]

I'll make a good list of people I have dealt with:

 

pendragon1998

TomB

ant

bsshog40

Bruceswar

dooly

Here

braddick

jtryka

James_EarlyUS

jgrinz

winstonware

kryptonitecomics

 

 

And ATS:

 

fflhbfd

tsacch

Ducky1100

drsvenghali

endzone

SeaEagleCoins

rhound1977

ajia

Weather11am

TheRock

1966CUDA

RKKay

dantheman984

wayneherndon

solid

p8nt

ksteelheader

Musky1011

RNCHSN

CommemDude

[pendragon1998]

(1) The responses to the OP were broader than a list of people with whom specific transactions were either good or bad. They included a list of perceived "good guys," wrongly implying (despite attempts to disclaim) that folks not included are deficient in some way.

 

I think it's pretty clear from a disclaimer what the poster is and is not saying. I distinguish on my list between those I've sold or bought from, those who are on my general "good" list (i.e., people who I've heard are good), and those who for one reason or another I decline to do business with. I disagree that just because you're not included, you're implied to be deficient.

 

 

(2) I've lived long enough to know that there are at least two sides to every story. Calling someone out will invite a response in kind, and soon the forum will be awash in disputes, with none of us really in a position to know who's right and who's wrong.

 

Maybe, maybe not. That does seem to be the general theme on the internet.

 

 

(3) It's risky to take the word of anyone you know only through the Internet. This rule applies equally to someone who reports a bad deal with someone else. For example, you report that you'll never work with Truthteller again. With all due respect, I don't know you except through your participation here. I'm not sure why I should take your word at face value any sooner than someone else's. And, just to keep this even, why on earth would someone take my word over yours?

 

No, I report that I decline to do business with him. There's a difference. You shouldn't take my word at face value if you don't know me, OBVIOUSLY. I'm just a name on the internet - - which is my point: you know that we're all just chatters on a coin board. It's implied that you should take our comments with a large grain of salt.

 

(4) This risk also exists in relying on "good" reports. There's not much value in reports by a few people who have purchased one or two coins from a particular person. Just ask the people who've been burned by formerly Respected Forum Members™. Lots of people have been made to look silly by vouching for people whom they don't really know.

 

Again, that's an obvious point. Online feedback is only worthwhile to an extent. However, you can establish a trend when you see many people saying they had a good experience with X, or a bad experience with Y. If someone like TomB says he doesn't like someone, that means more to me than if SuperNewbieCoinBoy1001 says he doesn't like someone.

 

Really, this is not any different than the numerous "THANK YOU!" or "I GOT THE SHAFT" threads we see here and across the street. These are just all put in one place.

 

IGWT, I respect you (as far as I know you ), but what is the internet for, after all, if not to sit around and spout opinions? I use my judgement when reading lists like this - just like I do when reviewing feedback on eBay. I know some people here don't like others, and I take that into account. Frankly, I find this much more useful that eBay feedback. I'd love to see some sort of feedback system implemented in the MarketPlace forum, in fact. At least many of you know your butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to coins, unlike many eBayers leaving positive feedback for terrible coins.

[Zoins]

I'll out myself for being an all around good guy even when it makes me look like a bidiot

 

Someone ATS mentioned he liked one of my medals. I gave him all the information I had on it as well as pricing I had seen for the last six months, $85-95, including what I paid. Later, I found one on the bay which I told him about. He picked it up for $11

 

Does it make me look like a bidiot? I think so. True, I had to wait 6 months for the 3rd one to come around and be cheap but still! Do I mind? Not at all. I like helping and seeing people get good prices

 

--

I'll also out the following good guys that stand out for me, though it's probably not needed:

 

michael: great collecting advice

MarkFeld: looking out for the little guy

gmarguli: exposing industry practices

Bruceswar: pro bono BruceView!

 

Plus many, many others for great informative posts and excellent photos. This is a great place