Reason the grades...

[berylcoin-migration]

This is a variant of "guess the grade". I always appreciate when someone gives the reasoning behind their grade, such as "not enough detail in X location", or "not sharply enough struck for Y grade". It gives insights into grading that I can learn from. So, please give me your grading opinions and reasons on these three coins--or you can just take a WAG at the grades.

 

The coins are an 1835 Half Dime, 1859 Quarter, and 1875-S Twenty Cent Piece, all graded by PCGS:

 

 

 

 

BC

 

[TomB]

I like this premise much more than a strict guess the grade premise.

 

Capped Bust half dime: EF45. It looks like the drapery is worn too much at the neckline to be AU50 and the individual feather tips in the eagle's wings look like they might have slight wear. Of course, some of this could be striking weakness, which is very common in this series, especially on the eagle's wings. I will go with wear and EF45.

 

Seated Liberty quarter: EF45. This series has generally good strikes for the middle years, where this coin came from, so I think that the lack of definition on the breasts and knees of Ms Liberty and the edges of the wings on the eagle is from wear and not strike.

 

Twenty Cent piece: VF30. The 1875-S typically has a weakly struck central reagion, however, there seems to be considerable wear throughout the coin. The eagle's wing tips, talons and head show considerable wear as do Ms Liberty's shoulder, knees and breasts. Enough of her head is present to give this coin a VF30.

 

How did I do?

[Leothelion]

Hi Beryl

The grades mean nothing if you like the coins.

 

The condition and detail look nice for these coins.

 

Leo

[berylcoin-migration]

Tom, you were close to my grades. Is that good or bad?

 

Leo, I couldn't agree more--unless I have to sell them.

 

BC

[Leothelion]

Tom, you were close to my grades. Is that good or bad?

 

Leo, I couldn't agree more--unless I have to sell them.

 

BC

 

I got a hundred that says the twenty center is a VF20! If I get the coin, that is!

 

Leo

[truthteller]

#1 AU-55 looks like luster under the grime. Services tend to be a bit more lenient on early type. Nicer strike than average, most stars split and clear

 

#2 XF40 nice even wear, clean coin with no major digs or dings, nice color, what a SL quarter should look like

 

#3 VF35, a bit too much wear on the reverse eagle breast and wings.

 

TRUTH

[TomB]

Well, I think that that's a good thing!

[gmarguli]

I'm posting my guesses before reading what anyone else had to say or to see if you gave the answers yet.

 

 

1835 Half Dime: A coin I don't do much with these and am going with a gut feeling of where I would be happy to see this coin in a slab in that grade. That grade would be VF30. Fair amount of wear on the hair curls and the face seems to have some wear. Stars look to have a little wear. Reverse shows significant wear on the eagle.

 

1859 Quarter: XF40. A little too much wear on her knee for me to go XF45.

 

1875-S Twenty Cent Piece: VF30. I'm bumping the coin 1 grade point because there were weakly struck. Lots of wear on the drapery, yet still retains much detail.

[reid1836]

I would have to give the 1835 an EF-45, the 1859 also an EF-45, and the 1875-S a grade of EF40. The hair details show moderate wear on the obverse of the first coin, the second coin shows wear on the stars and there is wear on the head, knees, and cap on the obverse, some light wear of the details on the leaves - reverse, the third coin has wear on the shield and stars obverse, eagles neck feathers, talons, and leg feathers show light wear.

These are only the detracting points. The coins are very well preserved with many positive and outstanding qualities. Such as the strong shield details and pleasant fields on the obverse of the second coin as well as a strong all around reverse. The twenty cent has a strong LIBERTY which in it self should place it in the EF range at the least. Possibly it would grade an EF-45 as well.

Well, how close was I?

[Leothelion]

The Liberty looks weak to me and the head/hair detail is also weak. VF20!

 

Leo

[berylcoin-migration]

Remind me to buy raw coins from Leo and Greg.

 

BC

[berylcoin-migration]

Thanks for the responses. Here are the grades and my stream of consciousness thoughts on these three coins.

 

1835 Half Dime: PCGS VF35. This is my favorite of the bunch. In comparing the "texture" of the weak areas with the rest of the coin much of the weakness appears to be due to strike. Although subdued, it has the most intact luster of the three coins, particularly on the reverse. That said, there are smaller spots of obvious but light wear on the highest points of the hair, cheek, and bust line. The PCGS grade seems to be a compromise between XF45+ luster and flat hair detail for a close collar coin. An argument could easily be made for this coin to grade anywhere from choice VF to XF45.

 

1859 Quarter: PCGS XF45. The image of this one is very accurate, lacking only some lusterous sheen in the protected areas of the designs and around the legends. It is basically what an XF45 coin should be in my book. The only fault I can find with this coin is the weakly struck head and upper right stars, but that's nitpicking.

 

1875-S Twenty Cent Piece: PCGS XF45. The only thing I see that put this double dime in a 45 holder is the remaining luster, especially on the reverse. In person, this is a strange one. The entire reverse design seems lacking in detail. It's not that the areas of high relief or opposite high relief didn't strike up, the balance of the eagle is just lacking in fine detail. I don't know if this is die wear or what. Is anyone else familiar with what might cause this? In viewing the auction I tried to look past the holder and bid this as a wonderfully original VF30-VF35. In person there is slightly more fine detail in the eagle's feathers and head, pushing me towards the 35 grade. I still want a 40 to be sharper, as per the ANA standards.

 

All in all, I'm extremely happy with this bunch. Regardless of grade they each seem completely original, and head and shoulders above the dipped, cleaned masses I'm used to slogging through at shows and on eBay. I also thought that these were an excellent demonstration of the large and subjective role that luster can play even in circulated grades. Anyone still awake?

 

BC

[TomB]

Wow! Thanks for the post. In truth, I thought the Capped Bust half dime to be the strongest of the three coins since it looked to have the best luster from the images. I'm scratching my head, figuratively at least, on the twenty cent piece being graded that high. That is astounding.

[Hoot]

I'll reply before I look at any of the other posts...

 

1835 Half Dime: Looks AU55 to me, as the high points have some wear but there is nice lustre in between. A little dark, but I'll still give it the 55.

 

1859 Quarter: XF54. Still some good original lustre, but the coin is a little too worn for AU. Nice, original looking coin. Great detail in the eagle and shield.

 

1875-S Twenty Cent Piece: XF40. A bit too much wear for a higher grade, but great preservation if one looks closely and "behind" some of the rub. Too good for VF.

 

Hoot.

[Hoot]

Well heck! Now that I look at the replies, I see the answers posted! Oh well, I guess I only thought the half dime was a bit better (and I still think so!).

 

Hoot

[coinman1794]

I believe the Bust half dime should be at least an AU50 and possibly up to AU55, depending on the luster. That coin is way better than VF35.

 

What often troubles people is that they don't realize that luster can hide under the toning, and that that luster still counts toward the grade. Sometimes we don't realize the luster is even there or that that underlying shine is luster at all, etc. Only when the toning is too thick to let luster shine through at all does it work against the grade. In such a case, the coin can have full luster and still not grade AU, becuase the luster is too subdued. In your case the luster is visible and the coin should grade AU.

 

As far as strike goes, these coins are almost always flat on the highpoints, and with bust coinage in general, you cannot go by detail when determining grade. It all depends on wear and luster. This coin seems to have very intact luster in the fields with just a touch of rub on the high-points. The loss of detail is a striking issue and will not affect the grade (except at PCGS. I can't send bust coinage to them because I truly believe thay are clueless on it. For instance, this coin graded VF35! . I recomend sending that coin to NGC. They have been super accurate and consistent on my bust coinage, becuase they fully understand the wear and luster consept). Actually, as far as strike goes, this piece seems rather well struck for the series, with sharp wing detail and no blatant flatness on the reverse.

 

Its all about wear and luster with this coin. There is just a a touch of high-point wear and good lutser, and I think its AU50-55.

[GDJMSP]

berylcoin -

 

I have a question - and please don't be offended by it. I am asking it more for my own benefit than anything else. But the pics you posted - did you use software to alter the images at all ? In particular - did you sharpen the images ? I ask this because many do sharpen the images when they post pics.

[Leothelion]

berylcoin -

 

I have a question - and please don't be offended by it. I am asking it more for my own benefit than anything else. But the pics you posted - did you use software to alter the images at all ? In particular - did you sharpen the images ? I ask this because many do sharpen the images when they post pics.

 

Hi GDJMSP

I have this sharpening tool in my software; Microsoft Photo Editor but I could never make it work. The few times I have played with it, it only makes the coin look worse. It's a completely useless feature that stares back at me when I'm cropping a coin for uploading.

 

Leo

 

 

[berylcoin-migration]

GDJMSP, I actually got these images emailed from the eBay seller who auctioned the coins, then I shrunk them down to a manageable size. I didn't sharpen them, but he may have. Judging by the huge size and proportions of the images I assumed they were raw digipics.

 

Generally I don't sharpen my own scans either. It may show the detail better, but in my opinion gives an unnatural appearance--at least my image editor does. I will, however, sometimes adjust the color and contrast for accuracy.

 

BC

[GDJMSP]

With the software that is available today - one can do almost anything with a coin pic. Changing the color is as simple as changing the light angle - software is not even needed. Although it will do the trick.

 

But sharpening the images is usually able to be seen - once you get used to looking for it. That's why I asked - your pics appear - to me anyway - that they may have been sharpened.