Is this the demise of American Civilization?????

[MikeKing]

When I studied Ancient History in College, my Professor was exhuberant in his discussion on the worsening of Roman coinage during the decline of the Roman Empire.

 

 

I picked up a roll of these from my favorite Teller at my local bank.

 

 

I was more horrified looking at the actual coin, than the photos I've seen.

 

 

Horrible, horrible, horrible, is all I can say.

 

 

The WORST rendition of Washington's face that I've ever seen.

 

The coin is light, like aluminum. Is this what it's made of?

 

The strike has no depth.

 

The coin shines like a fake token from a local Fair that you use on rides.

 

The incused edge is the only interesting facet of this rediculous product of the U.S. Mint. It's an embarrassment. What a piece of junk!

 

[Stanley]

Sad eh

 

What would Theo say if he were here?

[Zoins]

Could be. After all, the doomsayers have been talking about the demise of American Civilization for some time now. Is this one of the symptoms?

[WaxonWaxov]

Well, the ways things are going I figure within 50 years we'll all be citizens of the People's Republic of America and worshiping the Great Chairman Hillary.

[Zoins]

When I studied Ancient History in College, my Professor was exhuberant in his discussion on the worsening of Roman coinage during the decline of the Roman Empire.

Anyone have a pic of a Roman coin with more than a passing resemblance to the GW$?

[TomB]

You know, it's scary that I have actually had some of the same thoughts that you have had regarding the state of our coinage and history.

[Zoins]

Can similar decline be seen in the coinage of other formerly great civilizations?

[James_OldeTowne]

I've only seen pictures of the coin, and that's enough to tell me that I don't want one.

 

Horrible, just horrible artwork on the mint's part.

[MBA101]

I think the decline of our coinage, and lack of many significant design changes since 1947, has to do with people liking worthless paper or better yet, credit. This I think comes from us first leaving the gold standard, then eliminating silver. Don't you think that there would be WAY more interest in coinage these days if Dimes, Quarters, Halves and Dollars were silver? And there were actual gold coins circulating as money, or you could exchange that $100 bill for an equal amount of gold?

 

Of course today there are inherant problems with this, but frankly I have no intetest in modern coinage myself the way it is currently minted.

[astrostu]

I agree with the above post -- I think it has much more to do with the Amer'can idea of buying things on credit rather than dealing with coins, or even bills in most cases. Pay with plastic and you forego the pain of depleating your bank account, delaying it to one day each month. And, almost all credit cards have some sort of rewards program that goes with it, intimately tied to the more you spend on the card, the more rewards you get. I'm pretty sure that's what psychologists refer to as positive reinforcement.

 

Contrast that with currency and it's almost a negative reinforcement since every time you pay cash, there's less in your wallet for next time. And coins are so worthless today in terms of buying power compared with days of yore that most people (except for women with purses who keep all their change ... not to be sexist, just an observation) don't use them in regular transactions, they just get them as change. I would not be surprised that if you went up to a random person on the street if they couldn't tell you what our coins look like today in terms of design (except for possibly a vague reference to Lincoln on the cent and state quarters).

[Zoins]

most people (except for women with purses who keep all their change ... not to be sexist, just an observation) don't use them in regular transactions, they just get them as change.

Actually, I asked my lady banker what she thought of the GW$ and I was surprised to hear that she dislikes small dollars and quarters. She said the coins are too big for her change purse! That was something I didn't expect to hear from a woman but there it is.

[RWB]

The degradation of coinage quality may be more closely related to the increase in coinage as mechanical utilitarian tokens than to its alloy. Throughout much of the 19th century – particularly after the Civil War – there was persistent discussion of improving the appearance of our coinage. During this time the argument was largely among artists and Treasury officials. Roadblocks to improvement came from the Attorney General and it took until 1891 for Congress to change the law sufficient to permit more artistic designs for all the coin, not just new denominations.

 

When the diameter of the five-cent CuNi piece was changed in 1883, there was no wide-spread commercial market for mechanically activated devices. Thus, no constituency to objected to the change, and the much improved design was popular.

 

The great design renaissance of 1905-1921 was the culmination of artistic expression on our circulating coins. But, during this period there were increasing objections from coin operated devices. They objected to any alteration – design or specification – that might potentially cause them to have to change their devices. The complaints began in 1909 with the Lincoln cent, escalated with the Buffalo nickel, and reached the point of the mint sponsoring tests with three large coin operated device manufacturers in 1916 – and altering at least one design to satisfy them. In 1942, the mint had two primary concerns for the coinage: 1) reducing the need for strategic metals, and 2) keeping vending machine manufacturers happy.

 

After WW-II came the ubiquitous vending machine, and the time and work necessary to make any change in circulating coinage – even the design – was an impediment to change. The half dollar was largely immune, since it played little role in vending machines; and that is the only coin to have been significantly changed. As the Coinage Act of 1965 was being debated, the second most important subject was vending machine acceptance of silver-less coins.

 

Since then, the focus has been on maintaining compatibility, and artistic design has been very far to the background. With no effective body of artists to review designs and demand the best. (Neither the present Commission of Fine Arts nor the CCAC have the gumption to say “NO!” and then demand improvement.) All that is really of importance to the Treasury now is mechanical compatibility.

 

There has also been a change in public perception of art. Whereas once even commercial advertisers looked for artistic ways to showcase their products, after WW-II the marketing MBAs began turning to “pop culture” for their ideals, not “classical culture.” The last generation of national leaders to have any conception of “art” was during the Kennedy Administration – and they were all raised in pre-WW-II/pre-MBA society. You can see the results in your pocket change each day.

[Coin]

Well,.....it is a product of a 'committee'......

 

I really like the Statue of Liberty and GW's face ,,,,but but but...even with the 'neat' edge lettering ....these design elements , all great work of the respected artists , look to me like they were placed by 3-year olds after a marathon day of watching 'tele-tubies' episodes....( are they trying to dumb-down the coins for a 3 second attention deficit , knowledge intolerant society?)......I REALLY REALLY REALLY wonder what the criteria is for someone to be on one of these 'ADVISORY" committies ?

 

I'll bet they all worked for a bus token factory at one time and made big political donations in hopes of converting our coinage into tokens for use on buses and subway terminals.

 

I do like the new 'coins' , but agree that they are not aesthetic and do not 'flow' right , but then one of the few committees that ever produced anything worthwhile was the Declaration that Thomas J did up with the advice/corrections? from Lightning Rod Benjamin F and others.

[coinman1794]

After combining my own conclusions with those of the other posters, I think the answer to your initial question is...yes.

[WinstonWare]

Yeah pretty weak effort

[MunkyMan95]

I wouldn't say it's the demise of the American Civilization as a whole, but the demise of artwork at the mint. Think back in the early 1900's with the Saint, or even before that with Capped Bust and Draped Bust Halves. Flowing hair coins! They were truly beautiful. Now all we get is horrible renditions of dead people...

[pendragon1998]

I think one of the issues with the dollar coin is that men no longer carry money purses like I read about in historical novels. If I had a little bag to carry my dollar coins in, I don't think I'd care so much about having $15 in dollar coins on my person.

[zrlevin]

I think one of the issues with the dollar coin is that men no longer carry money purses like I read about in historical novels. If I had a little bag to carry my dollar coins in, I don't think I'd care so much about having $15 in dollar coins on my person.

 

They still makes tens you know!

 

This mentality is what I don't like. People seem to think that to use them, they aren't allowed to use any other paper money anymore.

[WinstonWare]

For some reason a coin that weighs the same as a paper clip just doesn’t feel right in my hand. It feels cheap.

[Mozin]

MBA101 said

I think the decline of our coinage, and lack of many significant design changes since 1947, has to do with people liking worthless paper or better yet, credit. This I think comes from us first leaving the gold standard, then eliminating silver. Don't you think that there would be WAY more interest in coinage these days if Dimes, Quarters, Halves and Dollars were silver? And there were actual gold coins circulating as money, or you could exchange that $100 bill for an equal amount of gold?

 

Of course today there are inherant problems with this, but frankly I have no intetest in modern coinage myself the way it is currently minted.

I feel the same way.

 

I also bought a roll of the new Washington Dollars. My feelings were similar to MikeKing's, junk.

[zrlevin]

For some reason a coin that weighs the same as a paper clip just doesn’t feel right in my hand. It feels cheap.

 

Don't you deadlift something like 600lbs? Just about everything would feel like a paper clip.

[lkenefic]

Last year I would have scoffed at the initial post but since starting a 7070 I can see the evolution of design. It's truley stunning to see how bland an unimaginative the current designs are when compared to coins of just 75 or so years ago. Is this a sign of the apocalypse? I don't think so, but it is definitely noteworthy.

 

Leo

[michael]

geroge looks extremely worried on this new presidential dollar

 

forwarning of things to come

[WoodenJefferson]

 

Mr. Phelps

 

I blame the start of all this with the casinos...the slot machines have gone coinless/tokenless with printed paper credit slip as a payout. ~uuugh~

 

Give us back the silver dollar days, the noise, the weight, the feel of REAL money when you hit the jackpot!

 

I still want to keep our advanced technology and the way we live, but coins of yesteryear meant something...no matter what was happening in the world around you, holding a 1947 Walking Liberty in your hand back in 47' meant you were holding at least a half dollar in goods, not only that, the coin also looked good and iit fealt like the real deal.

 

Back then, the average citizen really didn't need the Government to back your money, it was already backed by the mere fact that is was made out of a precious metal that was and still is, recognized world wide...Silver

 

The look of United States circulating coinage has gone to Hell in a Hand basket...very disappointing, time for a change.

 

Can we do it?

 

One of you young pups is going to have to strive to become the Mint Director in 2027 and revert back to engraving/sculpturing our coinage. A renaissance of sorts.

 

Good luck!

 

This message will self destruct in 5 seconds....~fiiiissst~

[Fergie]

geroge looks extremely worried on this new presidential dollar

 

My 1st impression was that George looked mad as hell !

 

Elsewhere a comment was made that the coin looked more like play money and I agree, the " $1 " symbol on the reverse appears to be copyright infringement against Parker Bros, and their Monopoly game.

 

Off topic/on, do we expect more gamepieces this year ?

 

Fergie.

[SkyMan]

Come on folks, let's be realistic, MOST current American artwork (done on a canvas) looks like it has come out of one end or the other of a dog. Why should our coins be different?

 

Also, since the opening part of this thread talked about the coinage of the Roman Empire, let's look at a little history here... The "country" was originally the Roman Republic, it was only after it had become an Empire (basically neutering the Senate that had become the instrument of the special interests... mm, sound familiar?) that it reached it's true peak.

[WaxonWaxov]

I think one of the issues with the dollar coin is that men no longer carry money purses like I read about in historical novels. If I had a little bag to carry my dollar coins in, I don't think I'd care so much about having $15 in dollar coins on my person.

 

I keep hearing people whining like little girls "oh I don't want to carry a bunch of coins around"

 

How often do you carry around 15 one dollar bills in your wallet? Personally, I f'ing hate it when that happens. IT makes your wallet a half and inch thicker to poke you in the arse, and makes you think you have this big wad of cash, when really it's just 15 bucks.

 

That is why God invented the $5 bill, $10 bill, etc.

 

People keep mentioning how everything went to hell with coin designs around WWII.

 

The real problem is that we have 'real' people on all our coins. Once a person is on the coin, you can't remove them without spooning someone off.

 

I know they're planning all these special cents for 2009, the bicentennial of Lincoln's birth and the centennial of the Lincoln cent. I say in 2010 it's someone else's turn. If people get upset about removing Lincoln, just say "look, he got to be on the penny for 101 years. It's now someone else's turn"

 

That would set the precedent to remove Jefferson from the Nickel in 2038, Roosevelt from the dime 2046, etc.

[DC Dawg]

I wouldn't say it's the demise of the American Civilization as a whole, but the demise of artwork at the mint. Think back in the early 1900's with the Saint, or even before that with Capped Bust and Draped Bust Halves. Flowing hair coins! They were truly beautiful. Now all we get is horrible renditions of dead people...

The alleged "demise of artwork at the mint" includes the 2005 Westward Journey Nickel series, which has been widely acclaimed. The Joe Fitzgerald obverse, the Jamie Franki bison reverse, and the Fitzgerald Ocean In View reverse.

 

The alleged "demise of artwork at the mint" includes the San Francisco Old Mint Commemorative, which has been widely acclaimed, even here on these boards.

 

The alleged "demise of artwork at the mint" includes the complements received over the Jamestown 400th Anniversary commemorative.

 

The alleged "demise of artwork at the mint" includes the Connecticut Charter Oak on the reverse of the Connecticut State Quarter, North Dakota's "Badlands with Bison" design, Iowa's "Foundation in Education," and Maine's "Pemaquid Point Light."

 

And even though there are people who do not like the dollar coin in concept, the Sacagawea design is very well done!

 

Sure there have been a number of artistic questions (Thomas Jefferson on the current nickel, George Washington's spaghetti hair on the Quarter, and Franklin the Founding Father commem), but a bad rendering of George Washington on the new dollar does not suggest this is a "demise of the American Civilization" nor is it a "demise of artwork at the mint." If anything, the Mint, the CCAC, and CFA have an uneven record determining good art from bad.

 

Scott

[Zoins]

How often do you carry around 15 one dollar bills in your wallet?

Umm... never? What are you doing to accumulate 15 one dollar bills?

The real problem is that we have 'real' people on all our coins. Once a person is on the coin, you can't remove them without spooning someone off.

This sounds reasonable. I'm not a fan of how many coin designs have stagnated and lasted so long.

[Zoins]

The alleged "demise of artwork at the mint" includes the 2005 Westward Journey Nickel series, which has been widely acclaimed. The Joe Fitzgerald obverse, the Jamie Franki bison reverse, and the Fitzgerald Ocean In View reverse.

 

The alleged "demise of artwork at the mint" includes the San Francisco Old Mint Commemorative, which has been widely acclaimed, even here on these boards.

 

The alleged "demise of artwork at the mint" includes the complements received over the Jamestown 400th Anniversary commemorative.

 

The alleged "demise of artwork at the mint" includes the Connecticut Charter Oak on the reverse of the Connecticut State Quarter, North Dakota's "Badlands with Bison" design, Iowa's "Foundation in Education," and Maine's "Pemaquid Point Light."[...]

When I think of demise of coin design, I mostly think of ongoing, circulating types, not single year or NCLT types. Though the upcoming "box with feet" has been almost universally panned.

And even though there are people who do not like the dollar coin in concept, the Sacagawea design is very well done!

Can Goodacre's design be considered "artwork at the mint"?