Newest Addition to Type Set: Indian Head, Oak Leaf Wreath, Bronze (Grade = ???)

[astrostu]

Bought it yesterday, imaged today. I tried hard to get the colors as true to life as possible, but the toning is very slightly more colorful in-hand. This coin pretty much completes my 20th century type set for copper coins ... next is nickels.

 

I'm curious as to what you guys think the grade is, which is why I left that as "????" for now. I have my opinion and the dealer's opinion, but I'm curious as to what you all think, especially in the question of weak strike vs. wear ... I have larger pictures if needed.

 

 

I also think it matches well my 1909 VDB that I bought a month or two ago (shown below for comparisson).

 

[bsshog40]

Nice!!

[MunkyMan95]

I compared your indian to my MS63, and they look pretty close. So I'd say yours is 63/64 RB

[TomB]

I like the look of the IHC very much and believe it is an MS coin from the single set of images provided.

[rrantique]

Is that a die break running thru the "C"? If it is i say Ms and nice example.

[astrostu]

Is that a die break running thru the "C"?

 

No, just a scratch.

[rrantique]

Is that a die break running thru the "C"?

 

No, just a scratch.

 

Well i don't see any wear on the horizontal lines on the shield so I'm still sticking with Ms

[CarolinaCollector]

I think the Indian cent is MS62-RB. Very nice coin!

[relicsncoins]

Looks like a 62 brown. Maybe enough red to get a 62 RB.

 

JJ

[michael]

great eye appealling coinage

[Fergie]

Hi astrostu,

 

RE; Indian cent,

Are you sure the "scratch" on reverse mentioned is not a die clash ?

 

That appears to be the indians "nose profile" to me, possibly.

Also, the same area on the obverse, in front of the nose, anything there ?

 

I could be mistaken, just a guess.

Nice coins.

 

Looking again I am almost sure I see the "O" from the word ONE - rev., very clearly showing obv.- in front of and slightly above the nose.

Please check it and respond.

 

Fergie

[astrostu]

That appears to be the indians "nose profile" to me, possibly.

Also, the same area on the obverse, in front of the nose, anything there ?

 

...

 

Looking again I am almost sure I see the "O" from the word ONE - rev., very clearly showing obv.- in front of and slightly above the nose.

 

 

I don't actually have a magnifying lens, so I looked at the original pictures I took. I copied the "O" from the reverse, rotated it 8°, and it matches up perfectly with the impression in the field next to the nose on the obverse.

 

I copied the forehead on the obverse, flipped it vertically, and then lined it up with that crack such that the headband is just above that bottom leaf on the obverse. It matches up perfectly.

 

So yeah, I guess I do have a die clash, and though I understand how the impression was made on the reverse, why would the O on the obverse be rotated about 8°?

 

And I assume that the reason it's only in the fields is because that's the highest point on the die (since it's the lowest point on the coin) and so the opposite side wouldn't imprint on the physically recessed parts of the die?

 

Does this alter the coin's value at all ... ?

 

Oh, and I guess as the "grade revealed" part, I was thinking MS-63RB, and the dealer basically said "Gem UNC RB." Since most of you said somewhere between MS-62 and up to MS-64, I'll go ahead and stick with the MS-63 grade assumption.

[Fergie]

WAIT A SECOND........NO GLASS ?

Are you pulling my leg ?

Come on astrostu, I have a box full of "lens".

You're kiddin, right ?

 

Your answer requires alot of splainin for me to do.

 

Nice improvisation to do a copy and flip of the images.

 

If you hold the two images/papers with the reverse part aligned and flip it over exactly.... without moving the alignment, then the "O" should be right where it is supposed to be, I think.

 

If not, then I'm not sure without seeing for myself.

 

Your assumption as to what should show where is very close. Both dies should be flat to the touch, or level, when made. But they are not perfectly matched pairs in this regard and each is unique. Neither does the press set-up allow the dies to match perfectly "flat". The net result is the dies made contact strongest at their closest point. And yes, the sharper edges will show the most, plus to it as the die-pair wears the crispness is lost. And yes, the recessed/raised portions show nada.

 

As to value, yes again, Indian Cent folks avidly search for all the available die varieties. Buy a book, and a glass.

 

I get it, you mean you don't have a glass at work.......

 

Have fun and go find some more of these, they are neat.

 

Fergie.

 

Edited for spelling and a P.S.

The die clash adds value and does not lower the grade of a coin, but if the "grader" see's the clash mark as a"scratch", then......the grade goes down.

Die clashed coins are alot of fun. Be sure to mark the description as "Die clashed" on any coins you offer for sale or to a TPG for grading.

[astrostu]

No, I actually really don't have any magnifying glass at all. I was surprised about this, too, when I searched about two months ago. It's just something I never bothered with since I have good eyes (the only one in my family who can read that small print on the medicine bottles).

 

Going back to the actual clash, I did it the easy way just now and duplicated the reverse, flipped it, and overlaid it on top of the obverse. If I move it to the left just about 3 px (which corresponds to 0.2% the width of the coin), then that "crack" lines up perfectly with the nose/forehead/headband. Also, the "C" lines up almost perfectly with what we identified as the "O."

 

So then I guess yes, this really is a die clash. And I really wasn't looking for one, I just wanted a nice, MS example for my type set.

 

There's also machine doubling on the reverse (very minor, not visible in the scaled down image I included above). It shows up on the lower part of the "N" in "ONE," the lower part of the "E" in "CENT," and on the upper part of the shaft of the top arrow.

 

So much for my "flawless" example of a 1901 cent ...

[Fergie]

Thanks astrostu,

 

The C makes perfect cents.

 

Well, that's a first for me, a collector with really, really good vision.

 

Thank you for posting the coins and for your replies.

 

Fergie.

[ad4400]

Very nice coin that I would be happy to own. I'd give it an MS grade but am wondering if their is a punch line with your inquiry re: strike vs. wear. There is what appears to be a break in toning on the Indian's cheek, which is a warning sign for actual wear. Pretty sure such a break in toning would not be related to strike, and it could be simply how the coin toned instead of wear.

 

Nice coin either way.

[astrostu]

There is what appears to be a break in toning on the Indian's cheek, which is a warning sign for actual wear.

 

What do you mean by a "break in toning?" To me, I get the impression that this coin was lightly handled and the oil from the skin was transferred to the coin and created a darker tone, like in the fields (though darker on the cheek).