This is what ruins it for collecting.................

[realone]

If any one out there has been to small claims court (or any other similar/comparable avenue in the court system) related to their business can attest to the fact that although you have brought in what you believe is to be solid proof to support your case, and since it is your business and one could very well say you are an expert in that business area the fact that you are before a judge who has his/her own experiences/education/expertise the ruling is most invariably different than how you perceived it to turn out.

When you send your coin in for grading, whether is is multiple times or not, the ruling you get is often differnet than what you expected. These graders are acting as judges in the rulings, with less time to devote than for anything I can possibly imagine and yet we let everything fall on their judgement as to the outcome.

Why are us collectors so stupid (I am calling myself stupid, not anyone else) as to let someone dictate this to us when we know the outcome should have turned out differently.

[Zoins]

Probably because TPGs are better than having dealers assign grades as was done before. At least with TPGs, there's less arguing over grade with dealers.

[Dcoin]

They get it right more often then the average collector gets it right. The lost art of grading.

[James_OldeTowne]

The number of coins I've ever sent in is very (VERY) small, but they've actually been either quite close, or right on to what I expected.

 

That being said, I sure don't want to be ruled by "the plastic". I still consider my personal opinion of a coin to always trump that of an anonymous "TPG".

[DC Dawg]

Why are us collectors so stupid (I am calling myself stupid, not anyone else) as to let someone dictate this to us when we know the outcome should have turned out differently.

 

As in the court system, you have an appeal mechanism. Both NGC and PCGS do have review services to determine whether the coins are graded correctly. Or, like the legal system, you can refile the case as a different dispute like you can crack a coin out of its holder and send it to a different TPG.

 

This is not to say that I don't feel your pain, I do. The problem is that many collectors and dealers are not skilled graders. At the various grading contests, the "amateurs" are not as good as the professionals. Grading is not easy. However, the industry is not helping the amateurs enough (do you hear that ANA Board of Governor candidates who lurk here?).

 

Scott

[MikeInFL]

Why are us collectors so stupid (I am calling myself stupid, not anyone else) as to let someone dictate this to us when we know the outcome should have turned out differently.

 

Said simply, because many don't have the skill/experience to grade/valuate coins for themselves, and the market in general places great value (rightly or wrongly) in the 10 second opinion of a TPG...Mike

[Mozin]

Grading services have helped collectors, but for what they charge, they should grade more consistently.

[TomB]

TPGs have a legitimate value in this market, but reliance on them is optional and the degree to which one would rely upon them is personal. In my opinion, taking the knowledge and initiative out of collecting is what ruins it for folks, not the existance of the TPGs.

[carson city]

Beauty is in the eye of the holder----Pam Anderson

[Zoins]

In what ways have TPGs actually ruined collecting for people?

 

(a) TPG assigns a different grade than you do? You can always crack out and resubmit, or submit to a different TPG, self slab or keep it raw. For dealers this means they can't rip people off as much so it may have ruined things for some dealers.

 

(b) TPG slabs doctored/problem coins as market acceptable? This kind of sucks IMO if you're taken and over bid thinking the coin isn't a problem coin but oh well.

 

© TPG does not live up to grade guarantee? I agree this sucks.

 

Are there other ways? Has anyone left collecting because of TPGs?

[MunkyMan95]

In what ways have TPGs actually ruined collecting for people?

 

(a) TPG assigns a different grade than you do? You can always crack out and resubmit, or submit to a different TPG, self slab or keep it raw. For dealers this means they can't rip people off as much so it may have ruined things for some dealers.

 

(b) TPG slabs doctored/problem coins as market acceptable? This kind of sucks IMO.

 

© TPG does not live up to grade guarantee? I agree this sucks.

 

Are there other ways? Has anyone left collecting because of TPGs?

 

(d) People rely on TPG's WAAAAAAY too much!

[Zoins]

In what ways have TPGs actually ruined collecting for people?

 

(a) TPG assigns a different grade than you do? You can always crack out and resubmit, or submit to a different TPG, self slab or keep it raw. For dealers this means they can't rip people off as much so it may have ruined things for some dealers.

 

(b) TPG slabs doctored/problem coins as market acceptable? This kind of sucks IMO.

 

© TPG does not live up to grade guarantee? I agree this sucks.

 

Are there other ways? Has anyone left collecting because of TPGs?

(d) People rely on TPG's WAAAAAAY too much!

But how does OTHER people relying on TPGs too much affect YOU?

 

(d.1) You can't sell your non-TPG graded coins for as much money any more?

 

(d.2) People don't appreciate your non-TPG graded coins?

 

(d.3) People bid moon money for TPG-graded coins so they become too expensive for you?

 

(d.4) Too many coins have become widgetized and not interesting at their price point?

 

The people relying on TPGs "too much" may be perfectly happy and not think anything has been ruined.

[bsshog40]

The only time I think I would want a coin graded and slabbed was if it was a key date or something that would become a key date. I for one can get close to a grade but not exact. I also think that a TPG can surely get closer than I can but they are also human and there is the possibility of human error now and then. It can't be said that TPG's cannot make a mistake once in a while. But If I had something I valued, planned on selling in the future, and I would suspect get more money verifying it's grade, then yes, let the TPG do it for me. IMHO

[jesbroken]

I don't feel that TPG'S have ruined the hobby for anyone.

Yes, they have driven certain price levels higher-is that bad for the hobby? I can't see as how it would be. We all praise something else that helps support our coin's value.

Yes, sometimes they make mistakes-does that ruin the hobby? No, because we all have other avenues or recourses for that grade.

Yes, they have hurt the feelings of a hopeful high grade for a particular coin that an individual sent in. We all want the best grades for our picks because it directly grades us as to our ability to discern coin quality. Sometimes, we feel coins we own are better than they are-especially during reselling. That still does not effect the hobby.

Yes, sometimes they are relied on too much--but that is just the individual and not

the TPG. Still no effect on the hobby.

I think overall they provide a good service to the hobby and abuse is on an individual level.

Jim

[CoinCurious]

I don't feel that TPG'S have ruined the hobby for anyone.

Yes, they have driven certain price levels higher-is that bad for the hobby? I can't see as how it would be. We all praise something else that helps support our coin's value.

Yes, sometimes they make mistakes-does that ruin the hobby? No, because we all have other avenues or recourses for that grade.

Yes, they have hurt the feelings of a hopeful high grade for a particular coin that an individual sent in. We all want the best grades for our picks because it directly grades us as to our ability to discern coin quality. Sometimes, we feel coins we own are better than they are-especially during reselling. That still does not effect the hobby.

Yes, sometimes they are relied on too much--but that is just the individual and not

the TPG. Still no effect on the hobby.

I think overall they provide a good service to the hobby and abuse is on an individual level.

 

Exactly.

[MunkyMan95]

In what ways have TPGs actually ruined collecting for people?

 

(a) TPG assigns a different grade than you do? You can always crack out and resubmit, or submit to a different TPG, self slab or keep it raw. For dealers this means they can't rip people off as much so it may have ruined things for some dealers.

 

(b) TPG slabs doctored/problem coins as market acceptable? This kind of sucks IMO.

 

© TPG does not live up to grade guarantee? I agree this sucks.

 

Are there other ways? Has anyone left collecting because of TPGs?

(d) People rely on TPG's WAAAAAAY too much!

But how does OTHER people relying on TPGs too much affect YOU?

 

(d.1) You can't sell your non-TPG graded coins for as much money any more?

 

(d.2) People don't appreciate your non-TPG graded coins?

 

(d.3) People bid moon money for TPG-graded coins so they become too expensive for you?

 

(d.4) Too many coins have become widgetized and not interesting at their price point?

 

 

All of the above.

[Zoins]

Chad, there are a lot of areas where the plastic mentality hasn't taken hold, however US coinage seems to be the one area where it has taken root strongly. I can see how someone interested in US coinage but not what has happened to the US coin market can think it has been ruined. Thankfully there are many other areas to focus on

 

If you really want to focus on the US coin market where many coins are out of your price range, you may want to look into becoming more of a dealer, finding coins where you can make money. You have already done this reselling some coins but perhaps it can become a bigger part of your collecting/selling efforts?

[World Colonial]

Chad, there are a lot of areas where the plastic mentality hasn't taken hold, however US coinage seems to be the one area where it has taken root strongly. I can see how someone interested in US coinage but not what has happened to the US coin market can think it has been ruined. Thankfully there are many other areas to focus on

 

If you really want to focus on the US coin market where many coins are out of your price range, you may want to look into becoming more of a dealer, finding coins where you can make money. You have already done this reselling some coins but perhaps it can become a bigger part of your collecting/selling efforts?

 

You are correct. That is the second reason why I do not collect US coins. They are not as affordable.

[Buffalo_Pete]

I won't hesitate to pay more money for a coin if it is something I really want.

 

If I decide to buy a coin from a Dealer who is over grading that coin, I make sure the Dealer knows why, and if they still don't budge, I buy the coin and have it slabbed right there.

 

When it comes back, I confidently and graciously point out who was correct in the assesment of the coin.

 

I usually get sort of a blank stare, or a shrug, or no comment at all.

 

But what I DO get is more of a measure of respect from who I'm dealing with.

 

Examples:

 

Bought a raw 1918/7 D Buffalo Nickle form a Dealer who sold it as VG. I went round and round with him about how it just didn't have enough horn. He wouldn't budge, but this was a coin I really wanted, so I bought it, slabbed it, and when it came back G-6 I never let him forget it!

 

Another example is when I purchased a 1928-P Peace and paid XF price for it.

 

It came back VF-35, and the price differential is very small, but the POINT I made was very big.

 

Use the tools to YOUR advantage. Knowledge is power.

 

Pete

[Conder101]

Said simply, because many don't have the skill/experience to grade/valuate coins for themselves,

And these inexperiencd people are very eager to spend lots of their money on these things they don't know about RIGHT AWAY!

 

Bought a raw 1918/7 D Buffalo Nickle form a Dealer who sold it as VG. I went round and round with him about how it just didn't have enough horn. He wouldn't budge, but this was a coin I really wanted, so I bought it, slabbed it, and when it came back G-6 I never let him forget it!

And the dealer just says, "So what. I still think it's a VG."