How much is the brand of plastic really worth?

[Tradedollarnut]

This seems a little excessive:

 

PCGS MS64 Eliasberg 1795 $1 current bid $184,000

 

NGC MS64 Eliasberg 1795 $1 sold for $115,000 at FUN

[MBA101]

All it takes is PCGS plastic to increase the value of a coin. You should know that by now.

 

Seriously, I made a comment in a rant a while back about the huge premiums many of the older coins in PCGS holders were bringing, even ones that do not deserve it. If you are going to sell your collection, send them into PCGS and they will sell to the cool aid drinkers at huge premiums, even if they cross a grade lower. The Heritage auction results for the most part back this point up.

[LuvToCollect]

It's a shame but a reality.

[James_OldeTowne]

To a registry set collector, I think the brand could understandably be worth quite a lot, actually.

[construct]

Thirty percent or less is what I have come to expect. A 30% difference strikes me as a little nutty.

[MikeInFL]

A slightly different question comes to mind...do you think the current high bidder knows this coin just sold at FUN?

[bsshog40]

I can buy NGC slabs all day long, than pay the premium for the same grade in a PCGS. Don't bother me a bit. Actually I prefer the NGC slab over the PCGS.

[MikeKing]

Do buyers ever get discounted for the buyer's fee by heritage, when they are historically big buyers or sellers?

[EZ_E]

Do buyers ever get discounted for the buyer's fee by heritage, when they are historically big buyers or sellers?

 

yes

[MarkFeld]

Do buyers ever get discounted for the buyer's fee by heritage, when they are historically big buyers or sellers?

 

yes

I have never heard of anyone, no matter how big of a customer, getting a break/discount on the 15% buyer's fee.

[MunkyMan95]

Do buyers ever get discounted for the buyer's fee by heritage, when they are historically big buyers or sellers?

 

yes

I have never heard of anyone, no matter how big of a customer, getting a break/discount on the 15% buyer's fee.

 

15%... I didn't know it was that high. Yikes!

[mepot-migration]

"A slightly different question comes to mind...do you think the current high bidder knows this coin just sold at FUN?"

 

I would think that someone looking to spend that kind of money on a coin would realize that the previous auction results are right there on the the current auction page.It would have been alot cheaper to have bought it at FUN,and crossed it themselves.

[MunkyMan95]

How much is the brand of plastic really worth?

 

About $69,000?

[DirtyGoldMan]

I do not think it is the plastic, per se. Instead, it is the perception that the coin is accurately-graded, not over-graded. That said, I would not want a $100,000 coin in a cheezy NGC holder.

[dooly]

Wow i wish i could get that kind of price for a late 1700s uk bit of silver

[MikeKing]

Do buyers ever get discounted for the buyer's fee by heritage, when they are historically big buyers or sellers?

 

yes

I have never heard of anyone, no matter how big of a customer, getting a break/discount on the 15% buyer's fee.

 

I believe you. But what do you think is going on?

[Houston Investor]

I think the people spending this kind of money care more about the coin and how it fits their taste than the brand of plastic. In addition realized prices, can have a lot to do as to where the coin falls in the grade range.

 

I have PCGS, ICG, NGC, ANACS certified rare coins in my inventory. Outside of where a particular coin may fall in the grade range, I price them all at the same markup above CDN. Recently I had a particular issue in both an ANACS and PCGS holder in the same grade for the same price. The ANACS coin was the one that sold. They were both priced at a calculated market percentage (based on the prices of hundreds of coins from the ads of other dealers I have in an excel spreadsheet) above CDN Ask (wholesale replacement cost). Don't confuse CDN Bid / Ask as what a dealer will pay a collector for a coin as CDN represents dealer to dealer transactions. Ideally, for a dealer to achieve a target profit of 40% of sales assuming a markup above CDN Ask of 20%, the dealer will need to buy inventory from walkup traffic to his table at CDN Bid less 20% or more. I question if anything less than 40% gross profit on sales is going to cut it in the coin business considering the operating expenses.

 

Consequently, you really can't make generalizations about the "brand of plastic."

[WoodenJefferson]

Since for me these two coins would be "fantasy" pieces...the thought never entered my mind.

 

TDN...you have a bit higher caliber of taste than I

[braddick]

To be fair, the same scenerio could be playing out right now with the same results even if the reverse was true: Say the first sale was the FH dollar in a PCGS holder and the second, higher price, in NGC plastic.

 

The market is driven by a number of deciding factors and it could simply boil down to the simple evidence the right set of eyeballs were not on the coin the first go-around.

 

To immediately assume the higher price is now due to the coin being housed in a PCGS slab may not be even close to accurate.

[Tradedollarnut]

When I first saw the coin, I thought it was something I had been waiting for ... but then I recognized having seen it in the previous auction. PCGS holdered early dollars don't come around that often - I do think the value difference is indeed because of the holder.

 

In the future, I think that these huge value differences will begin to fall for accurately graded classic material.

[rexcat]

During my search for the PF67 Buffalo nickel in my type set last summer I found after a little research and looking for a 1937 nickel not to even bother looking at PCGS coins.

 

A good looking PF67 PCGS 1937 buffalo the cost was at least $2900, where just as nice of coin in a NGC holder, $2400.

 

The funny thing is, people do pay the difference, go figure…

[IGWT]

To be fair, the same scenerio could be playing out right now with the same results even if the reverse was true: Say the first sale was the FH dollar in a PCGS holder and the second, higher price, in NGC plastic.

 

The market is driven by a number of deciding factors and it could simply boil down to the simple evidence the right set of eyeballs were not on the coin the first go-around.

 

To immediately assume the higher price is now due to the coin being housed in a PCGS slab may not be even close to accurate.

 

The fact that the prior sale of the same coin was just two months ago takes away a lot of other "deciding" or explanatory factors. A $70,000 upswing over two months is just plain whacked.

[MBA101]

I was thinking about this, and if you were to actually look at the pricebook levels for this coin, it sold for a bargain. Greysheet on this is $130K. Assuming because of pedigree, it is a nice clean coin, and the dealer or person that bought this saw an opportunity to profit hugely by re-holdering it then hyping it up, maybe even through his own network. Now he has the PCGS crowd plus all those that he told about the coin looking, thus more bidders and watchers. I wish I had the confidence to snag a lofty desireable coin at a bargain level and turn a 70K profit on it like that, and the auction isn't over yet...

[chinook]

When I first saw the coin, I thought it was something I had been waiting for ... but then I recognized having seen it in the previous auction. PCGS holdered early dollars don't come around that often - I do think the value difference is indeed because of the holder.

 

In the future, I think that these huge value differences will begin to fall for accurately graded classic material.

 

So do you think the premiums for PCGS plastic will go down or that NGC plastic will be discounted less ? In other words, is the actual value of the coin somewhere between the two?

[Tradedollarnut]

I was thinking about this, and if you were to actually look at the pricebook levels for this coin, it sold for a bargain. Greysheet on this is $130K. Assuming because of pedigree, it is a nice clean coin, and the dealer or person that bought this saw an opportunity to profit hugely by re-holdering it then hyping it up, maybe even through his own network. Now he has the PCGS crowd plus all those that he told about the coin looking, thus more bidders and watchers. I wish I had the confidence to snag a lofty desireable coin at a bargain level and turn a 70K profit on it like that, and the auction isn't over yet...

 

Yes, it sold for 63+ money .... which was a bit less than the quality of the coin. When I looked at it, I did not think it would cross.

[Tradedollarnut]

So do you think the premiums for PCGS plastic will go down or that NGC plastic will be discounted less ? In other words, is the actual value of the coin somewhere between the two?

 

Depends. For accurately graded & PQ coins, the discount will go away and the overall value will increase. For the dregs, the discount will increase and the PCGS premium will get bigger.

[BillJones]

Wow i wish i could get that kind of price for a late 1700s uk bit of silver

 

In the British series a coin like that is just youngster.

[James_OldeTowne]

Something else has been bothering me about this coin. I know the lighting angle is different for these images, but has the coin's appearance "changed" and possibly "improved" slightly between the two sales? I wonder if a carbon spot or to haven't been removed, or something along those lines. I'm sure I'm wrong (who'd be nuts enough to mess with an Eliasberg coin??) ....

[DirtyGoldMan]

So do you think the premiums for PCGS plastic will go down or that NGC plastic will be discounted less ? In other words, is the actual value of the coin somewhere between the two?

 

Depends. For accurately graded & PQ coins, the discount will go away and the overall value will increase. For the dregs, the discount will increase and the PCGS premium will get bigger.

 

That's an excellent point. I do think that dregs in PCGS holders sell for more than dregs in NGC holders. Nice coins sell for what they should, be they raw, in P-plastic, N-plastic, etc.

[BillJones]

How much is the brand of plastic really worth?

 

More than it should from what I'm reading here ...

 

Yea, over the years, PCGS has been slightly more conservative in its grading than NGC, but to tell the difference you need to know how to grade coins. So far as the registries go, I've go no respect for the PCGS registry because they only accept PCGS graded coins. That means that any really great coin that is in an NGC holder is off the table, which is black mark against PCGS.

 

So far as paying higher prices to make the PCGS registry happy, it's not happen' with me. I've looked at the points the core coins in my type set earn on the NGC registry, and I know I'd have to start all over again. Chain cents and 1796 quarters in VF don't cut it for the finest known collection, and they shouldn't . I'm looking to drive my percentage of completion ratio to 99%, and my phtoto and comment sections to 100%. That's my goal, and with that set I'll be able to educate new collectors about the wonders of this hobby.