Would David Hall's NIG be considered a self-slabber today?

[Zoins]

I just ran across this timely David Hall NIG holder thread talking about the investment potential of that slab. What was David Hall's company like back then? Was he a self-slabber? His insert has a serial number and says it's certified but what did his certification mean?

 

[James_OldeTowne]

He was a "self-certifier". I wouldn't say "self-slabber" since these are 2.5x2.5 flips. I own several of them.

 

They are heat-sealed, making them tamper-evident.

[Zoins]

He was a "self-certifier". I wouldn't say "self-slabber" since these are 2.5x2.5 flips. I own several of them.

 

They are heat-sealed, making them tamper-evident.

Thanks for clarifying they are flips.

[BillJones]

He's still a self slabber so far as I'm concerned.

 

The relationship between David Hall and PCGS seems to be a little to close to be totally objective IMO.

[MarkFeld]

I worked as a buyer for David Hall from late 1985 until (late?) 1987. Back then, he made a two way market in coins he sold (and sealed in plastic flips) and even had strong/aggressive buy prices for coins that met his MS65 and PR65 standards, etc.

 

Because his buy prices were so strong compared to that of most other dealers, many sellers eagerly offered coins to him, and we literally had sellers lined up at our tables at shows, to show/offer us coins. Our standards were generally quite strict and once PCGS began operations, many of the coins that David Hall sold as MS65 or PR65 graded higher at PCGS, even when their standards were more conservative. There were of course other coins that did not grade as high at PCGS.

 

Other than for purposes of sentimentality and posterity, I see no real value in the old David Hall Numismatic Investment Group sealed flip coins. Many of the coins should be quite nice, however.

[BillJones]

He was a "self-certifier". I wouldn't say "self-slabber" since these are 2.5x2.5 flips. I own several of them.

 

They are heat-sealed, making them tamper-evident.

 

I thought that the heat sealed flips had PVC in them. For that reason the auction houses used to advise their clients to remove the coins from the holders soon after they purchased them. Doesn't long term storage in these things pose a threat to the coins?

[carson city]

A better question would be--not what did his certification mean in 1987, but rather what does it mean today, and what does guaranteed mean today ?

[gmarguli]

Back then, he made a two way market in coins he sold (and sealed in plastic flips) and even had strong/aggressive buy prices for coins that met his MS65 and PR65 standards, etc.

 

So did Escala with stamps.

[Oldtrader3]

I bought several MS65 Mercury dimes from David Hall's company during the aforementioned flip grading period. I submitted several some years later to PCGS and all came back with at least MS65 grading.

[James_OldeTowne]

Of the coins I have in David Hall flips, every single coin is conservatively graded, with one curious exception. I have an 1881-S Morgan dollar that he graded MS-65, but which I believe is more accurately MS-64.

[WaxonWaxov]

So did these flips pre-date PCGS and NGC?

 

Did he kinda invent certified coins?

 

forgive me if it's a dumb question. My history in coins doesn't go back that far.

[MarkFeld]

So did these flips pre-date PCGS and NGC?

 

Did he kinda invent certified coins?

 

forgive me if it's a dumb question. My history in coins doesn't go back that far.

Yes, the flips did pre-date PCGS and NGC.

 

Regarding the first certified coins - I found this on another website:

 

"The concept of certified coins came about in the 1970's. The American Numismatic Association (ANA) a national collector/dealer organization started a grading service called American Numismatic Association Certification Service (ANACS). They were one of the first companies to certify coins, with a third party unbiased grading opinion, while authenticating the coin"

[WaxonWaxov]

thanks Mark.

[TomB]

These flips are not PVC flips as far as I remember; they are more brittle. David Hall's sealed flips pre-date PCGS and NGC, however, ANACS was placing coins in flips for years previous to David Hall and these old ANACS flips were issued with an accompanying photo certificate. ANACS started to certify coins as genuine in the early 1970s and later added a grade to the certificates in the late 1970s or early 1980s.

[Connecticoin]

These flips are not PVC flips as far as I remember; they are more brittle. David Hall's sealed flips pre-date PCGS and NGC, however, ANACS was placing coins in flips for years previous to David Hall and these old ANACS flips were issued with an accompanying photo certificate. ANACS started to certify coins as genuine in the early 1970s and later added a grade to the certificates in the late 1970s or early 1980s.

 

Heh -- It's my coin -- I should have read some posts before starting my own thread here. The flip is actually very flexible and not brittle, so I suspect it has PVC. However, the coin inside is in a "cointain" capsule, which appears to be protecting it (no PVC damage that I can see). Since James has not cracked out the ones he owns, I presume his coins are OK as well.

 

Also . . . . 100!! Took me long enough!

[TomB]

I just noticed your other thread on this subject and will assume that all the flips were less brittle than I seem to remember. However, a Kointain should protect the coin for a long time.

[Conder101]

I wouldn't say "self-slabber" since these are 2.5x2.5 flips.

Yes, but slabs did not exist at that time (except in South Africa) And those flips are PVC flips.

[James_OldeTowne]

These flips are not PVC flips as far as I remember; they are more brittle. David Hall's sealed flips pre-date PCGS and NGC, however, ANACS was placing coins in flips for years previous to David Hall and these old ANACS flips were issued with an accompanying photo certificate. ANACS started to certify coins as genuine in the early 1970s and later added a grade to the certificates in the late 1970s or early 1980s.

 

Heh -- It's my coin -- I should have read some posts before starting my own thread here. The flip is actually very flexible and not brittle, so I suspect it has PVC. However, the coin inside is in a "cointain" capsule, which appears to be protecting it (no PVC damage that I can see). Since James has not cracked out the ones he owns, I presume his coins are OK as well.

 

Also . . . . 100!! Took me long enough!

I think it's important to clarify this. The David Hall flips ARE PVC FLIPS. Please be aware of this. However, the good news is that if you look carefully, the enclosed coins should be in airtight Kointains, and so are pretty well insulated against PVC damage. If you have expensive coins so holdered, you should indeed remove it from the Hall flips and get them into inert holders.

 

I've kept mine in the NIG flips since they are cheap, common coins.

[Conder101]

I don't consider the NIG flips to be slabs, but I do include them in the second edition of the Slab book as a precurser of slabbing.