Grading question on 1882 CC Double Eagle

[MikeKing]

Understandably, it's a photo, but, I sent this in to PCGS for a regrade.

Would like to know if anyone cares to grade this coin.

This is the obverse, what follows is the reverse.

[MikeKing]

reverse

[MikeKing]

And forgive me.

It was originally in a PCGS holder and PCGS had free offer to grade a CC gold coin--I couldn't resist--OK?

 

[TomB]

I'll guess as long as you accept the usual caveat that it is impossible to truly tell grades of MS and PF coins, on a consistent basis, from images alone. I'll go with MS63. It looks nice, especially for a CC.

[reid1836]

I would give it an AU-58 do only to what appears to be a slight rub on the obverse at the top of the hair details.

[jtryka]

For a type 3, I would give that coin a grade of MS-62, but like TomB said, it's really hard to grade from a photo especially since the grade on double eagles hinges a lot on the luster characteristics of the coin.

[PQSeated]

I hardly ever have to grade gold coins as I don't collect them, but it is always fun! I would guess MS62, from the photos, it looks like it has baggy fields. I've always loved the design of the Double Eagle, especially the reverse, it just has "that look." It is a very beautiful coin.

[bigd5]

Really need to see the coin in person, but the coin seems free of larger hits/marks. It does look to have pesky hairliny type marks though. I'll go with ms/63. I can't get a good enough look to tell if there is rub on the high points or not.

[Hoot]

Very tough to tell from a pic/scan, but I also have to go with AU58. Looks like just a tad bit of rub on the high points, but gold can be very tough that way.

 

Very pretty coin. Thanks for the look.

 

Hoot

[Oldtrader3]

It is really difficult to grade Double Eagles by means of a scan or picture. I would hazard a SWAG that your '82CC is an AU58 because of rubs on the hair, the eagles head and the reverse banner. Let us know what it graded.

 

Attached is a scan of a Type III, '98-S Dbl. Eagle, PCGS-MS63 for reference

[Oldtrader3]

Scan of reverse of '98S Dbl. Eagle

[jtryka]

Great coin OT3, I have one just like it! I am convinced though, that there is a big difference in grading the earlier type 3s (pre-1885) and the later ones. Generally, I have found that the strike on double eagles in the 1890s, especially 1895 and beyond is much sharper than the earlier coins. The 1877-1882 coins are especially tough, and even in high grades often don't look as nice as a mediocre 98-S. Add to that the perennial striking weakness of Carson City, and I think you might be a little too harsh on this coin. Certainly though, my judgement is limited by the photo, so it could go either way (i.e. the AU-58 to AU-62 call). Either way, both coins are really nice!

[Oldtrader3]

You could be correct. It is really difficult to ascertain whether the coin is understruck or rubbed from a picture. Plus, the earlier Type III's do look a little different. The coin could be a MS62 and be understruck. The Grading Service will decide which, I guess.

[MikeKing]

I'm attaching some scans, which, of course, lose the luster, but maybe it will help with the surface

the is the obverse

[MikeKing]

the reverse scanned

[MikeKing]

blow up of the hair

[Oldtrader3]

Much better! Easier to determine if there are rub spots on the highpoints. The photos reflected glare on the high points that looked like wear. The coin looks MS62. Earlier dates of this Type and being a CC may pull the grade higher to MS63. Let us know how you come out.

 

What was the original grade of the coin?

[jom]

I'm going with AU58...

 

jom

[gmarguli]

Looks a little scuffy on the obverse to me, but I don't think it has wear. I'd go with MS61, but I ALWAYS grade gold stricter than the services.

[darktone]

No question a mint state coin but looks like it has had a light cleaning from the pictures- MS61. Very nice. mike

[jtryka]

Much better pictures! I am going to reaffirm my previous MS-62 estimate, and say that it does have a chance at a 63, though I think it's a solid 62.

[MikeKing]

I appreciate everyones input, and thank you.

The 1882 CC Double Eagle was originally graded an AU55 by PCGS.

I just got it back from re-grade, and it's a ... AU55.

 

I thought it would be an MS61 or 62 but there is what appears to be some rub on Liberty's hair and forehead, but I could be wrong. I'm not too good at this stuff. I doubt if this coin ever went into circulation, but I guess that doesn't mean its 'uncirculated'. I'm not even sure what I think might be 'rub' is 'rub'.

 

Maybe PCGS just reholdered the coin, rather than re-grading it?

Maybe it's truly an AU?

 

The 1898 is a beautiful coin, Charles.

 

[jtryka]

Personally, I think AU-55 is insane, though if you want to sell it for AU-55 money, let me know where to send the check! You should consider cracking it out and sending it to NGC. I am of the firm belief that NGC does a much better job on grading gold anyway, and unless there is something nasty that doesn't show up in the photo, I doubt they would go that low. It's one of those AU-58 to "AU-62" coins as far as I can see.

[jtryka]

PS-For Reference, here is a photo of an 1876-S (yeah, I know it's a type 2) that PCGS graded MS-60: 1876-S Obverse 1876-S Reverse I also have a 1906 that was graded AU-58 by PCGS but I don't have a photo.

[MikeKing]

You should consider cracking it out and sending it to NGC

 

Do you think there's an advantage to cracking it out vs just sending in the whole slab for crossover?

[gmarguli]

You should consider cracking it out and sending it to NGC

 

Do you think there's an advantage to cracking it out vs just sending in the whole slab for crossover?

 

Yes. I say that after EVERY single crossover I have sent to NGC crossed that I thought should cross. I've crossed PCGS, ANACS, PCI, and SEGS to NGC. Some even upgraded. The only coins that failed to cross were ones that I knew had problems (AT), yet still made it into a slab at the other services.

 

I think if you removed the coin from the slab you remove the possibility that the graders will see the AU grade, take a quick glance at the coins, see the flat spots and say, yep, wear. Without that AU grade they have to take a slightly closer look and they aren't subconsciously prejudiced to the AU grade. This coin would be a special case.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Got fooled again (that second set of pictures). Oh well, it is still a nice coin and a pretty rare date, despite the few rubs.

 

[MikeKing]

I think if you removed the coin from the slab you remove the possibility that the graders will see the AU grade, take a quick glance at the coins, see the flat spots and say, yep, wear. Without that AU grade they have to take a slightly closer look and they aren't subconsciously prejudiced to the AU grade. This coin would be a special case.

 

I submitted this coin for crossover to NGC without cracking it out and it came back an AU55. Honestly, I can't believe it.

 

 

[jtryka]

Well, if you paid AU money for the coin, you should be happy, because I have seldom seen as nice an AU Lib, especially a CC.

[michael]

after the fact

 

for me this coin is one of the nicest type three cc double eagles i have seen! in terms of marks and overall eye appeal

 

 

has more eye appeal and less marks ,,,,,,lots less!! and tons more eye appeal than many 82 cc au58 ms 60 61!! coins and this coin also looks better mark and eye appeal wise than many other cc type three twenties that are graded as such!

 

but from the scan the coin does have slight rub on the obverse

 

and due to ever so slight rub this precludes an ms grade

 

the subjective nature of coins and coin grading is a funny thing

 

for me i grade this coin

 

choice au/choice unc!

 

and of course this is just from the scan

 

in a combination of what i have seen sight seen in type three cc double eagles and in scans of these coins!

 

 

i guess for me you can have a really banged up ugly! ms60/61/62 coin

 

or a coin that is a true choice unc in terms of marks and extremely eye appealling but is au because of ever so slight rub!

 

i would take the latter as i think in up and coming years this is the best coin in terms of looks and pleasing qualities and value!!

and whose time has not yet come and will have its place in the sun so to speak in terms of value when this is realized in future years!

 

this is a coin that needs to be evaulated as such for ALL its overall aspects and just not defined by one number on a holder

 

but currently in this mARKET with one brand of plastic this plastic speaks and so be it

 

remember majority rules and this is what the majority of buyers and sellers demand

 

grading and value is an extremely subjective science and the services do the best they can just remember the market is an extremely fluid concept and as such is always in a state of change

 

i am always amazed and surprised at the changes the market has taken in the last ten years especially so the last 4 years and i am sure i will be in for bigger surprises in the up and coming years!

 

just because a coin is not blessed by a current major service does not mean it is not a good coin or is not at least as good as if NOT BETTER other similar coins graded higher

 

it has BEEN and always will be a subjective market with subjective grading as it is all human based and then add money and greed into the equasion and it is a wild ride indeed

 

not good or bad or right or wrong just the way it is

 

i think the real key is

 

like what you buy buy what you like have fun as a collector! with money you can afford to lose! coins are not an investment

 

michael