Dealer pleads for help! Why??

[Leothelion]

Hi everyone

I came across this dealer's plea for help and thought maybe someone here may be familiar with this seller and could offer some insight on the situation.

I, in turn, have asked why this coin was being offered for $1000 more then a simular coin that sold last week for $1541. But then I can see he had his coin listed before the other but yet it's not a true auction. Like most of this dealers stuff, no true auctions.

 

Dealer

 

Leo

[reid1836]

I can only offer an opinion as to why this dealer feels the need to plea for help.

(e-Bay)! Competition is no longer between a several hundred or perhaps a few thousand dealers nation wide. It`s between millions! The days of 100% to 500% mark-up are over! Well I think that pretty well sums it up!!!

[gmarguli]

There are thousands of you fellow eBayers who have not bought from us. WHY??? We really want to know!!!

 

Because you are KEY WORD SPAMMERS! Because you put "COLOR!!!" in the auction title and it turns out to be a brown spot or the very worst was when you described the color as "white color" AKA brilliant. That was the last time I ever looked at your stuff and I swore to myself that I would never purchase from you because of this. I got tired of having your coins represent 50% of my search results, yet virtually none matched what I was looking for nor did they match the search criteria.

 

And then there might be your prices, such as a $30 coin listed for $1000

[Dermott]

Gah!!!

 

I know the whole spiel of "buy the coin, not the plastic", but I'd shy away from a slab that has all that leftover adhesive from a former price label, ESPECIALLY on the front of the slab even before looking at the coin.

[291fifth]

At a show last fall I had a discussion with one of this dealer's representatives regarding his eBay listings. He clearly didn't like hearing what I had to say.

[PQSeated]

They tend to have too high of prices and too high of shipping for the lower priced items. They don't need to send everything Priority with delivery confirmation, etc...

[jom]

I guess I need to be ed-yar-cated in Franklins but why the hell would this guy think he could get a $1000 for this? It's not even toned... ?

 

jom

[PQSeated]

A lot of dealers put premiums on the '53-S Franklins with nice bell lines, but not complete. This auction, though, it appears as an average strike for the date, and not worth much of a premium, if one at all. You can find near FBL specimens for less than $1,000.

[coinman1794]

I buy from them all the time and I have been very pleased with them. One of my favorite coins, my 1958 PCGS MS67 Gorgeously toned Franklin came from their eBay auctions! I've heard people go on and on about how terrible they are (as is happening here), but I have not had any such experience with them, and I have been fairly regular with them for over 2 years!

 

I'm almost sure that 53-S is close to FBL. They usually have several close ones on hand. They just don't have a description of it. Usually they will have a stick on the holder, but this one doesn't have one. Maybe it was returned with the sticker removed and they forgot to put another one on (simple mistake). That’s one thing they tend to do, make simple mistakes with listings. However, they aren’t crooks and no harm is meant. Sometimes it takes an e-mail or two to straiten things out. They could try to work on this problem. And maybe make descriptions.

 

I was on the phone with them the other day when they mentioned that it seems like too many non-priority shipments get lost, and so they like to use priority. By, the way, a buyer can ask them to ship it any way they want. They don't force the buyer to pay for priority mail.

 

Greg, a lot of there coins do have great color and you may miss out on a nice one if you boycott them! But, I agree, there are some that are ugly that are labeled “color”. But then, “color” isn’t a very specific term, anyway.

 

As for their prices, many coins can be had very cheap. Not all of them, of course. And, sometimes, they will make a mistake on the price. Again, a simple e-mail can solve that. Sometimes they start expensive coins at $9.99, so they do have real auctions, sometimes.

 

They have nice coins and I buy these nice coins from them, and I have never had a serious problem. Only an occasional, harmless mix-up. They do need work on that a bit. However, an occasional mix-up doesn’t outweigh the fact that I get nice coins from them all the time, so, I am not going to stop buying from them.

 

 

[GDJMSP]

I have viewed many of this dealers auctions - never bought anything. I have never seen even a single item offered that was not outrageously overpriced.

[jom]

I suppose it's the same for near -FB 1945-P Dimes. I used to see 65's at around $150 at one time. That was about 4-5X MS65 money and less than 3% of 65FB money. Are those proportions about right with this Franklin?

 

jom

[gmarguli]

I'm almost sure that 53-S is close to FBL. They usually have several close ones on hand. They just don't have a description of it. Usually they will have a stick on the holder, but this one doesn't have one. Maybe it was returned with the sticker removed and they forgot to put another one on (simple mistake). That’s one thing they tend to do, make simple mistakes with listings. However, they aren’t crooks and no harm is meant. Sometimes it takes an e-mail or two to straiten things out. They could try to work on this problem. And maybe make descriptions.

 

It might be better than normal, but from the photo it looks like it has about 60% of the lower lines. There is also no mention of the bell lines in the description. Still, at $1000 the coin would be overpriced if it had 98% bell lines, IMHO.

 

 

I was on the phone with them the other day when they mentioned that it seems like too many non-priority shipments get lost, and so they like to use priority. By, the way, a buyer can ask them to ship it any way they want. They don't force the buyer to pay for priority mail.

 

Priority mail is handled no differently than normal mail. They should lose the same percentage or normal packages as priority packages.

 

 

 

Greg, a lot of there coins do have great color and you may miss out on a nice one if you boycott them! But, I agree, there are some that are ugly that are labeled “color”. But then, “color” isn’t a very specific term, anyway.

 

True, color isn't a specific term, but if you're going to put color in the subject line, it should at least be close to having color. I don't think anyone is expecting the coin to have 3 tiny dots of color near the rim when they read a subject line that says "COLOR!!!". It's misleading at best and an outright lie at worst.

 

Like I said, the "white color" was the thing that pushed me over the edge with them. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but I'm happy they put those inventory numbers [E604] in the subject lines. I know when I see one returned in a search to skip it. I just cannot support sellers that intentionally mislead searchers (buyers).

[coinman1794]

True, color isn't a specific term, but if you're going to put color in the subject line, it should at least be close to having color. I don't think anyone is expecting the coin to have 3 tiny dots of color near the rim when they read a subject line that says "COLOR!!!". It's misleading at best and an outright lie at worst.

 

While I agree with the premise of that you are saying (it can be missleading to some), I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a lie, etc. Besides, there are people who like coins that others would call ugly, sometimes beyond reason, some people will love some ugly coins! Anyway, while somewhat missleading, it is certainly not unpresidented in the hobby. After all, it is NGC that once decided to designate W and T coins. A toned coin would get T whether the color was nice or not. It was a useless designation, true, but you knew the coin wasn't white. The coin had "color." Maybe that's what fairtraderz was trying to communicate...that the coin isn't white. By saying "color" they prevented the "white coin seekers" from clicking on the auction! Just a thought!

 

It might be better than normal, but from the photo it looks like it has about 60% of the lower lines. There is also no mention of the bell lines in the description. Still, at $1000 the coin would be overpriced if it had 98% bell lines, IMHO.

 

I have found judgeing bell lines to be very tricky if not impossible from most pictures, especially a 1953-S. I think most of us here have seen the PCGS MS66FBL and how bad those bell lines looked in the pic. This coin could very well be darn close and we would never be able to tell without seeing it. I might pay the $1000 if I felt it could make FBL at PCGS, otherwise, I also think $1000 is pretty high. And again, they do need help with oragnization and descriptions. That would be one thing to tell them.

 

Priority mail is handled no differently than normal mail. They should lose the same percentage or normal packages as priority packages.

 

Being that the issue of postage came up, I just thought I would mention what they said because...well...they said it, and it gives us a reason why they like to use priority mail! Whether their experience is just coincidental or a real trend is beyond my knowledge.

 

 

[Hoot]

I simply have to comment on this coin (the 1947-D MS67FS Jeff)... It's poorly struck for a 67, and especially for that date and mint. The hair of Jefferson is remarkably flat - I've seen better on MS65's than that. I also think the coin is poorly detailed in Monticello for the grade. The windows on the porch seem to lack detail as do the pillars - something that should stnd out with that grade of a Jefferson. The rest of the coin is nice and mark-free. I would bet that the lustre is good, even though that does not show.

 

The coin is WAY over priced. Jeffersons are funny that way, but you can own a nicely struck MS66 in that coin for around $50-$100. And if you look hard enough, you'll find that issue with full steps fairly readily. The price is a reflection of the registry hype. What [!@#%^&^].

 

As for the dealer, I think they've over-priced the coin, but they're entitled to do that. (And I also think that eBay gets seen as a big garage sale by many, which is a disservice to good sellers of nice things). They may also be quite straightforward with their policies, etc., so no big deal. But! this kind of statement: "We need your help!!! After three years of being one of eBay's largest sellers. We are thinking about shutting our doors. There are thousands of you fellow eBayers who have not bought from us. WHY???" ...is a load of [!@#%^&^]. If you make it on eBay, then fine, but if you don't then make your plea for information another way. They could have simply asked fellow eBayesians to PM them and let them know what they think of a list of queries. They might have gotten the information they needed without sounding like whining kids.

 

Hoot

[JD-migration]

I made a couple of purchases from this dealer a couple of years ago, back when they answered email. The postage rates have always seemed somewhat high to me but I just factor that into what I'm willing to pay.

 

My biggest complaint is that they just do not attribute the coins. I want the Seller to represent the coins. I do not believe that luster, and strike can be properly evaluated with pictures, in the vast majority of instances. Far and away, I want the Seller to clearly state the presence of spots, prints, toning and other marks. I want to buy coins, not ship them back and forth, waiting on refunds.

 

I suggest;

 

(1) Start doing a thorough job of describing the coin. Don't just assume it will sell because of the slab it's in.

 

(2) If you think a Franklin is FBL, have it slabbed as such. I won't buy it over the Internet as a FBL when the slab doesn't state FBL.

 

(3) Respond to your email inquiries

 

In the end, this Dealer will have better feedback and far less returns. More importantly, Repeat Customers!!

 

[Dog97]

Myself is only a mildly retarded buffoon but that in itself qualifies me to call the seller an insufficiently_thoughtful_person with no salesmanship qualities what so ever because he lists a modern nickel for $2,500 and the only descriptive description he can come up with to seperate me from my hard earned $$ is

1947-D PCGS MS67FS Jefferson 5c

DUH!! I wonder where he got that from? Maybe if he put Series: 20 Coin: 30 84032.67/90097659 in his description that would generate more interest in his sales.

 

Anybody remember the Franklin he tried to sell a couple of months that was sposed to be FBL but the holder didn't say FBL so he stuck a little yellow stickum on it that FBL. It was only a difference of $500 vs $5,000 difference or something like that. Like I said I'm not the smartest but I think people might actually be avoiding his auctions.

[K6AZ]

These clowns severely burned me on a NGC MS65 1882-CC Morgan about three years ago. Back in those days, they used stock photos of the best coin they could find. I bid PQ 65 money on this coin, and what I got was a fifth generation NGC holder that just made 65 in their very liberal days, I was positive it would do no better than 64 at PCGS. When I emailed them, they told me the sale was final and tough luck. I ended up selling the coin on eBay as a barely-made-it 65 and lost over $100 on it.

 

And as others have said, their shipping is outrageous, and they don't seem to understand what key word spamming is.

[keithdagen]

I've bought two really nice coins from these guys over the last year, both copper large cents in NGC holders, both really nice coins. Like any other E-Bay dealer, their inventory seems to have its ups and downs.

 

My advice to them would be to eat the shipping cost on the more expensive items, and consistently seek coins with better eye appeal.

[coinman1794]

Anybody remember the Franklin he tried to sell a couple of months that was sposed to be FBL but the holder didn't say FBL so he stuck a little yellow stickum on it that FBL. It was only a difference of $500 vs $5,000 difference or something like that. Like I said I'm not the smartest but I think people might actually be avoiding his auctions.

 

Many NGC coins that do not say FBL will make FBL at PCGS because of PCGS's much looser standard. And, as I have recently discovered, many NGC coins that do not say FBL will make FBL at NGC upon sending them in for Designation Review (NGC is so tough on bell lines that sometimes they are inconsistent and true FBL's don't make it the first time around)! So, it is entirely possible for an unlabeled FBL to exist. In fact, it is quite frequent, and there is nothing wrong with telling your customers that the bell lines are full.

 

Talk about buying the holder!

[Oldtrader3]

I also got burned by these guys a couple years ago with their E-Bay photos. The E-Bay picture of the coin that they sent me had been heavily doctored. Plus, they do not know anything about coins. IMHO, they are nothing but a Boiler Room operation.

[keithdagen]

Anybody remember the Franklin he tried to sell a couple of months that was sposed to be FBL but the holder didn't say FBL so he stuck a little yellow stickum on it that FBL. It was only a difference of $500 vs $5,000 difference or something like that. Like I said I'm not the smartest but I think people might actually be avoiding his auctions.

 

Many NGC coins that do not say FBL will make FBL at PCGS because of PCGS's much looser standard. And, as I have recently discovered, many NGC coins that do not say FBL will make FBL at NGC upon sending them in for Designation Review (NGC is so tough on bell lines that sometimes they are inconsistent and true FBL's don't make it the first time around)! So, it is entirely possible for an unlabeled FBL to exist. In fact, it is quite frequent, and there is nothing wrong with telling your customers that the bell lines are full.

 

Talk about buying the holder!

 

The problem with marketing a coin this way (especially those with a sizable value jump) is that if the buyer or the grading service don't agree, returns become a major hassle. The seller would do better to send the coin in for designation review and market the product with the correct grade and designation. Otherwise, a much better pic and description, as well as a clear cut return privelege is needed.

[coinman1794]

The problem with marketing a coin this way (especially those with a sizable value jump) is that if the buyer or the grading service don't agree, returns become a major hassle. The seller would do better to send the coin in for designation review and market the product with the correct grade and designation. Otherwise, a much better pic and description, as well as a clear cut return privelege is needed.

 

Yes, you are absolutely right. It's not good to charge a huge premium for a coin without recognition on the holder, unless there is a guarantee and/or proper return period. It is OK to tell people the attributes of the coin, though.

[Dog97]

coinman1794 I agree with what you said except for your last 2 sentences. There is indeed nothing wrong with a seller adding descriptive adjectives but when a slabbed coin is offered in basically a sight unseen market much weight is placed on the insert so $20 for a PCGS holder with FBL on it would have lent more marketability with such big jump in price. To stay in business a dealer has to sell stuff.

"Talk about buying the holder!" Well on eBay I'd rather buy the holder than the post it note stuck on the holder. By doing this he is offering the credibility of NGC but at the same time saying NGC's designation is not correct. Other collectors must feel this way since the seller's businesss is failing.

Just my opinion as an eBay coin buyer.

 

I'm sure the seller has been made aware of this thread and the long thread on the PCGS board and maybe he can benefit from these threads & save his business. Nothing really bad has been posted about him, mostly just a lot of easily corrected little things. Good luck to him.

[DrWho-migration]

Couldn't resist a reply.

 

Being a 'collector' I can do without another GREEDY 'dealer', whether on-line, local shoppe, whatever. Very tired of the GREED. No problem with a 'dealer' making $$$, but the GREED! I've learned, the hard way, with a slight learning cost/loss of about $500, total. No sympathy.

[keithdagen]

Couldn't resist a reply.

 

Being a 'collector' I can do without another GREEDY 'dealer', whether on-line, local shoppe, whatever. Very tired of the GREED. No problem with a 'dealer' making $$$, but the GREED! I've learned, the hard way, with a slight learning cost/loss of about $500, total. No sympathy.

 

Can you be specific as to why you think this dealer is greedy? In many instances, the dealer offers great prices on the coins being offered?

[DrWho-migration]

Coin shoppe owner has numerous occasions to buy Senior Citizen's coin hoard. In all cases, low-balls the Seniors, cherry picks the goodies, profits. Profit on whom? Poor Seniors?

 

Same shoppe. Owner has a tray on display case with odd foreign coins (worthless) in it. Sells to kids for 3 cents. Good. Get the kids into it. Adult comes in with his stash of foreign coins, Owner looks at them, says "Ah they aren't worth anything." Points to the tray of odd foreign coins, says "I just put them into that tray for kids." Adult hands over the coins. Owner cherry picks out the ones worth 'something', tosses the rest into the tray.

 

Bring 2 Morgans into Dealer, for cert evaluation. Low-balled. Offers $80 for both, when the greysheet is $200, AFTER testing me out with the 'oh its really only worth $5'. To which I replied; "only if melted down".

 

When offered $80 for both, she had the nerve to say: "Thats pretty good for a $1 coin!"

 

To them its Business, to me a hobby.

[keithdagen]

Coin shoppe owner has numerous occasions to buy Senior Citizen's coin hoard. In all cases, low-balls the Seniors, cherry picks the goodies, profits. Profit on whom? Poor Seniors?

 

Same shoppe. Owner has a tray on display case with odd foreign coins (worthless) in it. Sells to kids for 3 cents. Good. Get the kids into it. Adult comes in with his stash of foreign coins, Owner looks at them, says "Ah they aren't worth anything." Points to the tray of odd foreign coins, says "I just put them into that tray for kids." Adult hands over the coins. Owner cherry picks out the ones worth 'something', tosses the rest into the tray.

 

Bring 2 Morgans into Dealer, for cert evaluation. Low-balled. Offers $80 for both, when the greysheet is $200, AFTER testing me out with the 'oh its really only worth $5'. To which I replied; "only if melted down".

 

When offered $80 for both, she had the nerve to say: "Thats pretty good for a $1 coin!"

 

To them its Business, to me a hobby.

 

I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you, but the circumstances are a little different than the business practices of the dealer being discussed, and it isn't fair to them to lump them into the same category.

[Leothelion]

I want the Seller to clearly state the presence of spots, prints, toning and other marks. I want to buy coins, not ship them back and forth, waiting on refunds.

 

Got to agree with you there JD. Many sellers out there where I can't make heads or tails out of the coins and auctions. Pictures that load up slow, auctions with small pics or just the obverse. And sellers who say the exact same thing about every coin they are selling. I also hate sellers who misuse the word "RARE". We now have "rare slabbed 2003 nickels" up on e$ay.

 

Leo

[jeffnpcb-migration]

Somebody send me a HANKIE!

 

David Lawrence Rare Coins has a PCGS MS66 FS for $210.00

Am I to believe that for 10x's more I could tell the difference in the 2 coins??

[Leothelion]

Somebody send me a HANKIE!

 

David Lawrence Rare Coins has a PCGS MS66 FS for $210.00

Am I to believe that for 10x's more I could tell the difference in the 2 coins??

 

Hi Jeff

I have just started another thread on 2003 mint sets that I received yesterday. I can beat that price easily. I have a MS64 that would look nicer then that 66. The marks that make it a 64 are off and away from the profile....are we talking about the same thing here.....

 

Probably

 

Leo