I'm I missing something or is there a reason for this?

[currentcoin]

I was just checking Population (Cenus) reports from NGC and PCGS for post 1964 coins.

 

In most circles these are called Modern coins.

 

I was totally shocked to see that NGC populations (on average) are 10% of PCGS.

What is going on. Why is NGC so far behind in grading these coins?

Doesn’t NGC receive the orders, or they don’t want the orders.

What is going on???? Do they charge to much?

NGC people do you have an answer?

 

Glen

 

[coinman1794]

NGC's modern service is newer than PCGS's.

 

NGC moderns don't bring as much as PCGS so many people don't submit to NGC. There have been some overgraded NGC moderns, but for the majority of the time NGC has been grading moderns, they have been very consistent and accurate. Most people are unaware of this because they just don't submit, because the coins don't bring as much (well, now I have come full circle with my discussion, and I will let everyone else fill in the rest) .

 

Personally, I find NGC much better than PCGC on moderns. And, I have been forced to stop submitting to PCGS because of the inconsistencies. Has anyone here ever submitted a coin you that was 67 and got a 66, then resubmit and get a 64? I have! With my hope of a 67 asside, how can a grading service get 64 out of 66! A 64 is nowhere close to 66. This is just one example.

 

[gmarguli]

NGC refused to grade modern coins for quite some time. That's probably one of the biggest factors. Thanks to this, PCG$ got the reputation for being the service to grade moderns.

 

Take a lot at the bullion moderns and NGC usually has graded MANY more than PCG$.

 

While NGC moderns don't usually bring as much as PCG$ coins, they are catching up. I also think that NGC is grading many of the series on teh same level as PCG$.

[Oldtrader3]

I think that NGC has developed a sound niche strategy. Don't go head-to-head with the bigger revenue base, market leader. They did not try to outPCGS, PCGS at their own game. Instead, they carved a solid niche following with more traditional collectors like myself that want fair grading on Classic, and neo Classic (pre-WWarII) silver, copper and Gold coins. Sometimes being number 2 is a better financial strategy, because you may be able to leverage off their inefficiencies of size by exploiting their weaknesses as your strengths and not spend nearly as much of your Gross Margin for promotion and advertizing as No.1.

 

I am way past stressing over being number 1 or number 101 in the Registries. Obsessing over the latest PopTop (correctly graded or not) often leads to making imprudent investment decisions. High return/High risk, same game as craps or the market, different venue.

 

Buying a properly graded MS64/65 Seated (or Barber) dimes, quarters, or halfs for the same price as a PopTop moderns. There is some downward risk, but not much in this market, because these coins (without inflation) are cheaper than they have been since the mid-1970's. These someday will have big upside potential when the investor/collector figures out just how scarce many dates are.

 

I read some posts on another board, complaining about not being able to buy "common" Barber Half, MS64/65 material. The reason that they can not buy it is because it is closely held and there just is not much of it out there for sale!

[currentcoin]

That's nice information Oldtrader3 and I agree about the oldies, but goodies.

I'm assembling my type set with the money from Moderns.

 

I still would like to see NGC modern coins on par (pricewise) with PCGS.

If promotion is what is needed then use it.

 

Glen

[braddick]

Right or wrong, valid or not, PCGS coins garner more cash (Moderns) than NGC.

 

As long as that is the way it is, again, right or wrong, valid or not, PCGS will continue to dominate in the world of contemporary coins.

[bigd5]

PCGS will continue to dominate the Contemporary market, as Braddick says, but they will continue to lose market share, just as they have with Classic coins.

 

As for the Barber coins, I agree totally OldTrader! Especially the proof issues.

[jom]

The grading of moderns that is dominated by PCGS is no different that the whole market being dominated by them. Think of it this way:

 

Let's say a new grading service comes in and grades coins consistantly and is "accurate" based on what the market says. They won't get many submissions because the price of their coins won't match up with PCGS. Of the submissions they DO get the accurately graded ones will simply get cracked out and sent to PCGS to sell for the most money. The coins that are left in the new services holders are the ones deemed "overgraded", which even consistant grading services have happen all the time. Now when you as a collector go to a show all you will see are the overgraded coins in this new services holder and you thing "they suck". Hence, their market share drops further. This, I believe, plagued ANACS and to an extent NGC for years. In more recent years ICG, SEGS et all have had this happen to them. I'm not saying all these services are "accurate" or even consistant but even if they were they'd have a difficult time. PCGS was first so they had a distinct advantage...

 

So the only real way to get any market share is have good customer service. And to do that it takes YEARS to establish since the coin market is a very THIN market to begin with. Most services simply won't survive the long haul to do this....

 

jom

[keithdagen]

One of the things that I have found is that the premium for PCGS over NGC in the modern market is shrinking. And on those commems, since you may have to send in a coin four or five times to get your MS-70 at PCGS, versus NGC grading it correctly the first time, you end up getting near even money on many issues these days.

[gmarguli]

The grading of moderns that is dominated by PCGS is no different that the whole market being dominated by them.

 

I wouldn't say that PCGS dominates the whole market.

 

A few things to consider:

 

NGC appears to grade more coins per month than PCGS.

 

NGC has been the leader in slabbed foreign coins for years.

 

NGC is without a doubt the leader in error coins (between NGC & PCGS). While ANACS still is probably the leader in total error coins graded, I'm sure NGC is #2 and PCGS #3. This is an area where PCGS does not want to compete at all and they have outright stated this.

 

For many series the prices for NGC & PCGS coins are about the same. Some series PCGS is better, some NGC is better, and some they are even.

 

 

PCGS wants to dominate on perception of premium prices. They do this by tightening up their grading and the market reacts to the premium coins and fools the novices. It's a fine strategy if you can keep it going. The problem is that you can't over the long run. You can't keep fooling the people into thinking that your coins are graded more strict than the competition forever. You need to loosen up to get more submissions at times.

[jom]

Greg: As to my quote, I meant that as a perception not necessarily reality in all cases.

 

You can't keep fooling the people into thinking that your coins are graded more strict than the competition forever. You need to loosen up to get more submissions at times.

 

Right. Which goes back to the "consistantacy" issue. I've always maintaned that it is counter-productive for the grading services to be absolutely consistant (even if they could). If you take consistancy to the extreme they would eventually run out of submissions....

 

jom

[coinman1794]

NGC is without a doubt the leader in error coins (between NGC & PCGS).

 

... but PCGS is the leader in making errors while grading coins !