Why People Buy Plastic

[bigjim-migration]

The "perfect" 1979 SBA$ T1. So...is it a PF67 or a PF70? Just who would pay $10 for a coin that might retail for $15 only after you paid to have it slabbed?

 

Or is it really "closer to" PF70? In that case why doesn't the seller have it graded and take the almost $300 profit?

 

eBay Auction

 

This is just an extreme example of why a growing number of people buy plastic.

 

 

[gmarguli]

The "perfect" 1979 SBA$ T1. So...is it a PF67 or a PF70? Just who would pay $10 for a coin that might retail for $15 only after you paid to have it slabbed?

 

Why have it slabbed is the real question?

 

The PCG$ price guide that the seller is quoting is a joke. It has no basis in reality. It's wishful thinking prices from the dealers that set these prices.

 

This coin is probably a $6 coin. I don't have my sheets in front of me, but I seem to remember the entire proof set selling for around $9.

 

This coin was not submitted because even hitting a PF69 the money isn't there anymore. The deals that PCG$ and DH have made to the big submitters has killed the modern PF69 market.

 

 

This is just an extreme example of why a growing number of people buy plastic.

 

I thought it was because people don't want to take the time to learn how to grade.

[barberlover-migration]

BigJim, Welcome.

 

I don't know how old you are, but for those of us who were buying collector coins in mint state and proof in the 1970's up thru the early 80's probably the biggest advantage dealers had over collectors was they could sell a coin representing it as a certain grade say [gem unc.] which most people took to mean m.s. 65 and even though the dealer knew the coin wasn't really that nice would use this excuse not to buy his own coin back at the same grade in a few years [the grading standards have changed]

anyone who has any of those old anacs cert. graded coins can tell you about that game. To be sure, it was true that the grading scale had not been filled in yet and wasn't completly filled in untill about 1983 if I remember right.

 

What people really wanted was the chance to be on a level playing feild with the dealers at least to the extent that if they bought a choice 63 or gem 65 today, it would still be recognized as a choice or gem coin whenever they decided to sell. John Albanese and David Hall, wether you like plASTIC OR NOT HAVE PROVIDED A VALUABLE SERVICE THAT HAS HELPED MANY COLLECTORS AVOID THE SHARKS AND OUTRIGHT THIEVES IN THIS BUISNESS AND HAS HELPED STABILIZE THE GRADING OF COINS. Sorry for the caps, accidently hit the cap key and didn't want to bother to retype.

 

The buying of plastic is no substitute for learning how to grade yourself, but it has helped to eliminate the subjectivity of coin grading both on the buying end as well as on the selling end. I still remember how angry most of the local Minnesota dealers reacted to the start up of pcgs and ngc, to this day I think there reaction was because it cut into there profit margins from ripping people off both by overgrading there raw coins for sale and undergrading the coins offered to them by collectors.

 

Les

[currentcoin]

Very well put barberlover

Thats is why I quit coin collecting in the 70's

Rip off dealers, and what choice did you have at that time NONE

I knew how to grade back then as I still do but when your only buyer was a dealer you always got the shaft.

Many dealers still hate slabs for the same reasons.

Slabs have made a much more level playing field for all.

 

Glen

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

Welcome, Big Jim.

Les, you have told it like it was. I also quit coin collecting for about 10 years, prior to certified grading, because I got tired of being ripped-off (BU to AU, AU to XF,....) every time I sold a coin. Sometimes by the same dealer that sold me the coin! Some dealers still will try to BS you that a coin is really a NGC-MS63, not NGC-MS64. It always amazes me how little respect these guys have for their customer's abilities to grade and assess a coin.

 

I would probably never have returned to coin collecting had Certification not started. It was too much of a con game for many dealers. Not all dealers were ripping customers, I dealt with some that were fair and honest, but there were a lot of sharks out there! Also, regional coin shows have become larger and more frequent, as have auctions which gives collectors more sale venue opportunities.

[Hoot]

Not all dealers were ripping customers, I dealt with some that were fair and honest, but there were a lot of sharks out there!

 

There still are a fair number of sharks out there. They sell whizzed and cleaned coins as BU, machine doubled coins as rare doubled die varieties, XF as AU, AU as BU, BU at nothing but gem prices, counterfeits, etc. And when you call them on it, they get irritated with you and condescend to you as if you are the shark. I get around only to a few dealers in my various travels, but it always surprises me just how many are still playing the rip-off game.

 

There is a large contingency of people out there who are easy to dupe because they have not studied coins and consider their value something akin to myth. I feel badly for those individuals because the "buyer beware" attitude is taken as an offensive stance (sales aggression on the part of the seller) rather than the defensive stance it was intended to be.

 

I am grateful for NGC, PCGS, ANACS, and a couple of others. They are not perfect by any means, but they sure have leveled the playing field and made it possible for individuals to buy with relative safety as well as learn something about grading coins.

 

Hoot

[jom]

I think you've all missed the point of the original thread. When someone states "why do people buy PLASTIC" it isn't meant as a condemnation of certified grading in general. It is usually meant as an assult on the tendency for people to pay HUGE premiums on a small change in grade. Which, I believe, was what bigjim was referring to when he mentioned the SBA in PR 70. There DOES seem to be a trend that collectors are using the slab as a CRUTCH when buying. Which, IMO, is the other end of the spectrum to the "dealers overgrading" issue.

 

jom

[Oldtrader3]

Jom: Sorry, we hijacked your posting for another purpose than you intended. I think that a fair majority of collectors on this site would agree with you regarding MS69/70 moderns (or other series of coins for that matter).

 

In this present market the PopTop premiums are screaming high. IMHO, most don't believe premiums that these coins are selling for are sustainable. Plus, there is a lot of overgraded MS70's out there (most, I would guess). Coins that are really MS68 or whatever. This is the segment that is really going to crash and burn when the market for these PopTop's corrects and standards tighten again.

 

For myself, I do not own any MS69/70 coins and only one MS68 coin. I do own some Kennedy/Ike PR69DCAM's, but only one PR70DCAM (a Jeff. Nickel bought some time ago). Most all of my coins are either NGC or PCGS slabbed, but are graded by me to meet my personal requirements for the assigned grade. I do not see the paying the premium prices for coins over that grade over MS68 as being where I want to go with the future of my collection.

[Leothelion]

If I have missed the point, well then excuuuuuuuuuse me! So my question is, Does anyone really know what a MS65 coin is supposed to grade like? How about a MS66 coin? Or any of the other high grades that are available? It's an arguement for years at arms length. It's like the lottery, the more you play (pay) the better the chances you'll have at winning. But of course, with years of experience in grading, your odds just might increase.

 

Leo

 

Probably

[jom]

Jom: Sorry, we hijacked your posting for another purpose than you intended

 

I was not "upset" at anyone HIJACKING a thread. I was just pointing out that the responses, while all true and not even off-topiic, were missing the point of "buying plastic". Whether you talk about last nights game or today's stock market results in this thread I could really care less.

 

jom

[Please Delete-migration]

Why coins like that ever get into slabs eludes me. The only reasons I can think of are uniformity of display and hoping someone else thinks it is worth more than it is.

 

 

[reid1836]

I`d have to go along with Barberlover on this one! As far as a level playing field, I think the internet has gone a long way in that direction. No longer are dealers in complete control of prices. I have circumvented the dealer and his or her overpriced coins many times thanks to the internet. I`ve been able to purchase many higher quality coins at what I felt was reasonable prices. Many of which were certified by NGC, PCGS, or ANACS. All of which I feel are resalable at prices comparable to those paid.

[291fifth]

The value only accrues to these modern coins AFTER they have been slabbed by a major service.