Reviewing PCGS FUN Heritage sale prices

[MBA101]

May I ask what the attraction to PCGS holdered coins is, where people are willing to pay Moon money for butt ugly coins in PCGS plastic? I mean, we are talking about prices way over the PCGS price guide. I would never buy any of these, judging by the pics. And look at the crazy prices.

 

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61935&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61920&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61908&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61906&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61938&src=pr

 

Need I go on?

 

And the good ones would sell for the same way over PCGS price guide.

 

When I go to sell, I am going to reholder my whole collection and become rich. Even if a coin drops a couple of points, it looks like people will pay excessive amounts for plastic!

 

[MunkyMan95]

#1's not butt ugly at all... I might pay that for it, and in a live auction setting, who knows?

[MBA101]

It looks dipped and retoned, and it looks like it may have hairlines when look at those big pics. That same coin in an NGC holder would never sell for that much even if it had the same grade.

[MunkyMan95]

Maybe it is because of the live auction setting? Maybe someone liked the pretty colors and felt compelled to buy it for moon money. Maybe it's the aesthetic appeal of PCGS' holders. I personally like them better (I like ANACS the best) than NGC's. Maybe it's the fact that there's simply more of a collecting base for coins in PCGS holders? Who knows?

[MBA101]

These were online only sales BTW.

 

The big coins in NGC holders do not bother me at all. In fact, I rather like darkly toned big coins against the white backdrop.

 

The problem with paying this much is that if I am in a pinch and need quick $$, my dealer would only buy these from me at a wholesale like number, as would any dealer. Not only that, you can by 2 equal coins for the prices that these single coins brought, sight seen!

[gmarguli]

The Benson coins are very attractive. The color on them commands a strong premium.

[MarkFeld]

May I ask what the attraction to PCGS holdered coins is, where people are willing to pay Moon money for butt ugly coins in PCGS plastic? I mean, we are talking about prices way over the PCGS price guide. I would never buy any of these, judging by the pics. And look at the crazy prices.

 

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61935&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61920&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61908&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61906&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61938&src=pr

 

Need I go on?

 

And the good ones would sell for the same way over PCGS price guide.

 

When I go to sell, I am going to reholder my whole collection and become rich. Even if a coin drops a couple of points, it looks like people will pay excessive amounts for plastic!

 

Your post seems to contain a number of assumptions, any or all of which might be incorrect.

 

1) The prices realized might not have had anything to do with the fact that the coins were "PCGS holdered".

 

2) The coins might not have been "butt ugly".

 

3) The PCGS price guide might be inaccurate.

 

4) The prices realized might not represent "moon money".

[MikeInFL]

I'm going to have to agree with Greg and Mark on this one, although I should add that I personally do not like the dipped and album toned look of the Benson coins and would not pay as signficant of a premium as these often go for...Mike

[DC Dawg]

4) The prices realized might not represent "moon money".

Ok... I have to ask... what is "moon money?"

[MarkFeld]

4) The prices realized might not represent "moon money".

Ok... I have to ask... what is "moon money?"

To me, "moon money" is crazy/"out of this world" money.

[Zoins]

4) The prices realized might not represent "moon money".

Ok... I have to ask... what is "moon money?"

To me, "moon money" is crazy/"out of this world" money.

I define "moon money" as pricing levels far exceeding what the broader collector/dealer population is willing to pay. For moon money to be realized, there needs to be a determined buyer willing to outspend everyone else and, in an auction setting, there also needs to be a determined under-bidder. When/if the coin goes up for sale again and if the few determined bidders are not present, the coin may see a value collapse like we recently saw for a 1914-S eagle.

[kryptonitecomics]

I actually think most of the coins are quite attractive.......but then I don't collect the series and I do understand folks not wanting to buy white coins that shouldn't be white..........just my two cents.......I like em

[SlumLord98-migration]

None of those 5 coins does anything for me. The Benson coins are hairlined from wiping. If memory serves, NGC wouldn't touch these coins before the sale because so many had been cleaned. The bust halves sold for insane money at the time, and most were cleaned back in the 40s when purchased and placed in albums, where they took on the target toning that Benson coins are known for. I don't recall which, if any were monsters, but the whole Benson craze struck me at the time as something to be avoided. Since then, the coins have mostly sold well in secondary sales, but the cleaned look is a real turn off, and the sale was largely shunned by BHNC members.

[MikeKing]

4) The prices realized might not represent "moon money".

Ok... I have to ask... what is "moon money?"

To me, "moon money" is crazy/"out of this world" money.

 

would you consider the MS64 1834 Bust Half you recently bought as moon money? If not, can you name a price for that coin which would equate to moon money? (If you please)(and I am asking this honestly, and not meant to be in an antagonistic fashion).

[MikeKing]

May I ask what the attraction to PCGS holdered coins is, where people are willing to pay Moon money for butt ugly coins in PCGS plastic? I mean, we are talking about prices way over the PCGS price guide. I would never buy any of these, judging by the pics. And look at the crazy prices.

 

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61935&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61920&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61908&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61906&src=pr

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61938&src=pr

 

Need I go on?

 

And the good ones would sell for the same way over PCGS price guide.

 

When I go to sell, I am going to reholder my whole collection and become rich. Even if a coin drops a couple of points, it looks like people will pay excessive amounts for plastic!

 

 

I see your point. Is it just PCGS Busties? or does this escalation apply to NGC Busties also (AU50-55)?

 

I've been fantasizing actually sitting down with a spread sheet and pluging in data from Heritage's auction archives, but I don't know how to use the darn program but it would be an interesting thing...I think.

 

The Benson coins are all pretty ugly from what I've seen, some of them have toning I can appreciate, but those few have way too many hairlines. Totally unimpressed. I wouldn't want them.

 

None of the coins you referenced above warranted the prices they got imho.

[MarkFeld]

4) The prices realized might not represent "moon money".

Ok... I have to ask... what is "moon money?"

To me, "moon money" is crazy/"out of this world" money.

 

would you consider the MS64 1834 Bust Half you recently bought as moon money? If not, can you name a price for that coin which would equate to moon money? (If you please)(and I am asking this honestly, and not meant to be in an antagonistic fashion).

Mike, please never worry about how you phrase questions to me or how I will react to them - I welcome questions.

 

I thought the coin was a very attractive, high end MS 64 example. At $4800 and change, I believe I paid roughly (only) a 20% premium, if that, to what a number of lesser quality, less appealing pieces have brought lately. To me, "moon money" would have been something considerably in excess of what an MS65 would be "worth". Thus, in my view, the price I paid fell thousands short of "moon money".

 

Here are images of the coin for those whom are not already familiar with it:

 

 

[MBA101]

I should clarify that the coins that I am speaking about is in my AU target range, and the more I think about it, it is not just this auction, but many of the previous auctions as well. The PCGS coins are being bid up to where they are not worth chasing, especially when I have seen some ANACS coins that are actually just as nice go for way less. The coins that I provided links to are not the only ugly (in my opinion) coins that sold for retail or way above retail in PCGS holders. You would think that if a coin is ugly, it would sell for less.

 

This is not a Benson, and maybe it looks better in hand (one would hope), and maybe it is original, but look at what it sold for: http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=423&Lot_No=61908&src=pr

 

Would it not serve you better to find a coin in another holder or raw that you like and re-holder rather than pay a $ 300 premium to get an ugly coin in a holder you want?

 

All the PCGS coins in these Heritage auctions that I have followed have gone for way more than the NGC counterparts. The thing is, these are not Uncs that we are talking about, these are AU's where the difference between an Au50 and a 53 is really nothing like a 64 vs a 65.

[MBA101]

And Mike, I got your e-mail, but my response got rejected for some reason.

 

Thanks for your appreciation!

[MBA101]

Oh, and one more thing...the Long Beach sale is coming and there are a whole bunch of really nice PCGS coins in the XF 40 to AU 55 range that I am tracking, and will bid on. I will pay moon money for maybe one of them because of what it is, but lets see what happens and I will write it up here end of February. There is a lack of NGC graded coins in my target range in this one, so there will not be a comparison.

[TJ'S Coins]

Has anyone else noted that Capped Bust Halves have been rising in cost lately from Internet dealers? That's a trend I have noticed from several sites that I frequent. With that in mind these auction prices do not seem all that outrageous.

[MBA101]

the prices have gone up some, especially since the Summer, but probably around 15-30% depending on grade or rarity.

 

The common AU 55's were at around $325 through the Summer, now it is hard to get them for less than $400.

[MikeKing]

The 1822 overall is an interesting year for Bust Halves, I think. I think it's difficult to find really nice examples.

 

The coin you mention:

1822 Jan 2007 sold for $690.00

 

was auctioned off previously as well: (Feb 8 2006 sold for $747.00).

 

I love the heritage archives, because when I pulled this coin up for Feb 2006, it indicated that I had bid on it and was outbid. I bid $300.00 on that coin because that is all I thought it was worth.

 

I'm very happy, in fact, perfectly pleased with the 1822 that I have, but the reason why I bid on it (and lowballed because of the profuse hairlining) was because of it's interesting toning, which I believe to be AT thought 'market acceptable'. Of course, if you take a coin like this out of it's pcgs holder, I believe there is a good chance it would be bodybagged.

 

edited to add: you're very welcome.