The Mohawk Valley Hoard of Capped Bust Halves

[MikeKing]

Is anyone here familiar with this hoard? I've seen a web-site on it Mohawk Valley Hoard , and Grandoldhalves is selling a few of them.

 

My question is, has anyone ever examined these coins? Are they all cleaned in one way or another? Is the notch (apparently the original hoarder notched each coin as a method of identification before he buried them) all there is that puts them into NCS holders?

 

From the photos I've seen, some are pretty ugly and some are pretty nice. I'd love to buy some of them, but I won't because I'm trying to put together a registry set and apparently they can't be holdered (except by NCS).

[jgrinz]

Nice story - Never heard of it - Just say NO to notches

[MBA101]

They are charging full retail for coins that have been damaged, at the detail grade level. Sorry, but damage IMHO drops the value by one full grade in my book (if it is an EF 45, it would be a VF 30, AU 50 would be XF 40, etc).

 

Unless you are just into having one of these pedigree coins for the sake of it, I think it is a bit too expensive for notched coins.

[WoodenJefferson]

Curiously, each coin was hallmarked—exhibiting either a round or straight countermark or small mark as if made by a tiny chisel or punch.

 

I find it rather curious to say that a chisel or punch used to deform coinage would be considered a hallmark! Even punches comprised of Chinese symbols and letters used on Trade Dollars were called "counterstamps" and not considered as hallmarks.

[TomB]

It seems that most, if not all, of these that I have seen appeared to be either dipped or cleaned to some extent.

[JRocco]

I just can't bring myself to want one Mike. The coins are damaged. As for historical value---well un-damaged coins also have historical value. Imagine someone taking a handful of cleaned/dipped CBH's and taking a chisel point to them all and trying to pawn them off 10 years from now as part of this hoard.

 

I just can't like them.

[TJ'S Coins]

To answer Mike's original question. Yes, these coins have been conserved. Some, if not all of them, by NCS. Interesting history but as said above, priced too high for my collecting interest.

[comicdonna]

This story has always fascinated me. I live close to the site where the coins were found. Here's a link from a thread back in May 2006

http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...&PHPSESSID=

[SlumLord98-migration]

These coins were found in a number of locations on private property (with permission of the owner) over a period of several years; the site is still being actively searched. One of detectorists sold out early to the dealer mentioned earlier, but the other two sold their coins on ebay after being imaged and attributed by a BHNC member, who recently told the story in an article in the club newsletter, as well as an excellent presentation at the BHNC open meeting at the Denver ANA. He also had a video the detectorists made while searching back in '02; it was incredible to see one of my coins come out of the ground in a stack of about 25 coins. It appears to me that the coins were buried in cloth sacks, now long gone. They were mostly buried near trees, sometimes the trees inhibited recovery.

 

There were 4 distinct marks found on the coins, a single chop above the cap, two chops above the cap, a dot on the cheek, and 4 small dots in front of the portrait. The dates of the coins range from a single 1794 half to some 1837 halves, and some Spanish colonial silver from 1775-1842. The quarters range from 1805-1835. Among the rarities was a single 1818 B-5, an 1809 O.104 and 114, and an 1807 O.104 and O.115, 1 of three known! There is a lot of early date material that was sold by someone for the detectorists on ebay for reasonable money; I have two pieces that cost ~$200 each for otherwise EF-AU coins.

[mepot-migration]

I had a very nice conversation with Mike ,the person who bought most of this

 

hoard from the finders,at the FUN show.He told me most of the coins were not

 

conserved,and he had them slabbed by NCS because he did not think they would

 

grade with the 'damage'/trademarks.The only coins that can be claimed to

 

be from the hoard are the ones in the slabs marked Mohawk Valley Hoard.

 

He also told me he sold some of them to Grandolehalves,.already slabbed .

 

The coins I looked at were pretty nice,including an 1815/2 that was real nice.

 

He seemed to genuinely want to keep the history of the coins intact,and said

 

there was some mis-information floating around about the whole story.

 

FWIW,the prices did not seem outrageous,and I wouldn't mind owning one.

[SlumLord98-migration]

The only coins that can be claimed to

 

be from the hoard are the ones in the slabs marked Mohawk Valley Hoard.

 

Not true! Many were sold on ebay, and these were owned by two of the three original detectorists, who told their story to a BHNC member, and this was documented quite thoroughly. The owner of Keshequa copyrighted the name "Mohawk Valley Hoard" and uses it exclusively, but the other two detectorists sold their coins on ebay and used a name like ~'Upstate NY Hoard'.

 

Unfortunately, the video I watched showed them brushing their coins in water, which left them looking blast white and hairlined. ALL the early finds were cleaned in this manner. These were some good old boys having the time of their lives finding these coins, and proper conservation was the furthest thing from their minds. A few recent finds were recently sold on ebay by someone with the handle 'metal1', as were the ones I bought a few years ago.

 

BTW, it was a pleasure to meet you last week at FUN, Mepot!

[mepot-migration]

Slumlord,

 

It was nice to meet you also.I don't know how it will work out down the road

 

because everyone with a cut mark on a coin will try to attribute it as a coin from

 

the hoard.I believe that is why the guy from Keshequa Coins had his coins

 

slabbed like he did.I understand some were sold before he got them,I just don't

 

know how anyone else can prove the provenance of their coins without the

 

'Mohawk Valley Hoard 'slab.

[comicdonna]

These coins were found in a number of locations on private property (with permission of the owner) over a period of several years; the site is still being actively searched. One of detectorists sold out early to the dealer mentioned earlier, but the other two sold their coins on ebay after being imaged and attributed by a BHNC member, who recently told the story in an article in the club newsletter, as well as an excellent presentation at the BHNC open meeting at the Denver ANA. He also had a video the detectorists made while searching back in '02; it was incredible to see one of my coins come out of the ground in a stack of about 25 coins. It appears to me that the coins were buried in cloth sacks, now long gone. They were mostly buried near trees, sometimes the trees inhibited recovery.

 

There were 4 distinct marks found on the coins, a single chop above the cap, two chops above the cap, a dot on the cheek, and 4 small dots in front of the portrait. The dates of the coins range from a single 1794 half to some 1837 halves, and some Spanish colonial silver from 1775-1842. The quarters range from 1805-1835. Among the rarities was a single 1818 B-5, an 1809 O.104 and 114, and an 1807 O.104 and O.115, 1 of three known! There is a lot of early date material that was sold by someone for the detectorists on ebay for reasonable money; I have two pieces that cost ~$200 each for otherwise EF-AU coins.

This information is most interesting. You have to wonder, what the person who marked these coins was thinking at the time. As far as trees being a landmark, a 150 year old tree would be considered very old for the area of the find. As I stated in the other thread, I cut trees for a living, and if the coins were buried about 1850 to 1860, the tree would no longer exist. I would not be suprised, if the coins were buried next to a big tree, but by now, the tree would be long gone.

 

Mike

[michael]

know the dealer saw all the coins more than once

 

i myself would stay far away form any and all of these coins

 

also the coins in my opinion are not only damaged and cleaned but way overpriced