Some Moderns in the Heritage Signature Sale

[keithdagen]

Friday, drove down to Heritage, and looked at about 30 lots of US coins in the Baltimore Signature Sale. Was placed into a room with four professional dealers and a cart with the 6,000 lots. A Heritage employee was in the room to make sure everything was running smooth. We were given catalogs in binders with lot descriptions, and basically told to grab what we wanted to look at.

 

Here's some of my notes on some of the modern pieces, which I looked at just because they were there:

 

Lot 6372 -- 1938-D Jefferson Nickel N-68 -- Very clean fields, a few more marks on Monticello than I would have liked, but this coin had the kind of luster and look of the 94 and 97 SMS issues. A very pretty coin, and definitely one of the nicest pre-war Jeffersons in existence.

 

Lot 6709 -- 1939-D Mercury Dime P-69FB -- Could not find a single mark on this coin, and the color was wonderful in person. A strong case could be made for this coin to grade as a perfect coin excepting for a microscopic toning speck that can't be seen with the naked eye. PQ, even accounting for the grade.

 

Lot 6864 -- 1958-D Roosevelt Dime N-68* -- This is the prettiest Roosevelt that I have ever seen. Very well struck, I'm betting this piece was graded before the FB designation was announced. Heritage's scans do this piece no justice.

 

Lot 8104 -- 1964 Kennedy N-69 Specimen -- By far, the nicest 1964 Kennedy half I have ever seen, the strike is full, even the pesky tail feathers, and there are no distracting marks anywhere on the coin. Only fripe are the grease stains, and the reverse ones aren't as bad as the obverse. The obverse spot makes it look like Kennedy's got a hanger coming off his nose. The reverse blemishes tend to blend into the toning.

 

Lot 8105 -- 1964-D Kennedy P-68 -- By far, the prettiest 1964 Kennedy half I've ever seen. Very well struck, but there are a lot of small marks that should have held the grade back. I think the toning got the coin bumped a point, because technically, it was no better than PCGS 67's I have seen. The coin was holdered reverse up, but either side could be featured.

 

Lot 9055 -- 1971-S Ike Dollar N-68 -- First 68 by either service, coin is booming with luster. I've never seen another 71-S like this piece, probably more marks than you might want for the grade, but the luster swallows the eye.

 

Lot 9058 -- 1972-S Ike Dollar N-69 -- This coin sat right next to a PCGS 69, and I couldn't tell the difference between the two. Both coins seemed to merit the grade, and were above and beyond the other dozen 68's in the box.

 

Overall, if you have an interest in modern coins, this is a great auction because there are a lot of fairly graded moderns of high caliber in this grouping. For those who feel that PCGS is stricter, this doesn't seem to be the case any longer. NGC has either tightened or PCGS has loosened, but the quality of the coins in either holder is so similar as to be a non-factor.

 

There were some other great coins I looked at, and a lot of interesting opinions from the dealers around the room. (They were told early on I was a "message board spy"). Those are stories for a different day.

 

[Beijim]

Kaith, thanks a lot for the write-up and your in person opinions. It's great for those of us who aren't close enough to visit Heritage on the spur of the moment.

 

Lot 6709, the 1939-D Mercury Dime in MS69FB, is simply stunning.

 

Beijim

 

[braddick]

Thanks Keith. It appears that luster wins the day and the coin's marks somewhat forgiven.

 

I bet those MS68 NGC Ikes go for much less money than the PCGS counterparts. Not right. It sounds like they're the same coin but for some reason PCGS Ikes are stronger than NGC.

 

(Interesting side note: I recently bought a PCI MS69 (!) 1977-P clad Ike and "crossed at any grade" with NGC. I was hoping for a two point drop to 67 (cha-ching) but that was not to be- it's MS66.)

[Android]

Thanks Keith,

 

Did you see any of the Washingtons? There are so many high grade Washingtons up in all the auctions I'm almost overwhelmed.

 

Andy

[Russ-migration]

Lot 8105 -- 1964-D Kennedy P-68 -- By far, the prettiest 1964 Kennedy half I've ever seen. Very well struck, but there are a lot of small marks that should have held the grade back. I think the toning got the coin bumped a point, because technically, it was no better than PCGS 67's I have seen.

 

Keith,

 

You have an excellent eye. The coin was a PCGS MS67. It was upgraded in May of this year.

 

Russ, NCNE

[gmarguli]

Lot 6709 -- 1939-D Mercury Dime P-69FB -- Could not find a single mark on this coin, and the color was wonderful in person. A strong case could be made for this coin to grade as a perfect coin excepting for a microscopic toning speck that can't be seen with the naked eye. PQ, even accounting for the grade.

 

Lot 8105 -- 1964-D Kennedy P-68 -- By far, the prettiest 1964 Kennedy half I've ever seen. Very well struck, but there are a lot of small marks that should have held the grade back. I think the toning got the coin bumped a point, because technically, it was no better than PCGS 67's I have seen. The coin was holdered reverse up, but either side could be featured.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the same person owns both of these. I got to see some of the other Mercs from this lot. I believe I was told they were all upgraded from old ANACS MS67 slabs. Anyway, the MS68s that I saw were gift grades. I think the graders were blind that day. Overgraded by at least 2 points.

 

As for the Kennedy, the toning is something all right. Identical to at least one other GASSED one.

[braddick]

Lot 6709 -- 1939-D Mercury Dime P-69FB -- Could not find a single mark on this coin, and the color was wonderful in person. A strong case could be made for this coin to grade as a perfect coin excepting for a microscopic toning speck that can't be seen with the naked eye. PQ, even accounting for the grade.

 

Lot 8105 -- 1964-D Kennedy P-68 -- By far, the prettiest 1964 Kennedy half I've ever seen. Very well struck, but there are a lot of small marks that should have held the grade back. I think the toning got the coin bumped a point, because technically, it was no better than PCGS 67's I have seen. The coin was holdered reverse up, but either side could be featured.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the same person owns both of these. I got to see some of the other Mercs from this lot. I believe I was told they were all upgraded from old ANACS MS67 slabs. Anyway, the MS68s that I saw were gift grades. I think the graders were blind that day. Overgraded by at least 2 points.

 

As for the Kennedy, the toning is something all right. Identical to at least one other GASSED one.

Greg- You're making me believe you think if it's a Kennedy, and it's toned, it's AT! (Heck, you're probably right though. . . )

[keithdagen]

For all of the coins I saw, the luster was above and beyond what you typically see in a modern coin. That's one area that moderns up until the last ten years or so really seem to lack, booming luster. Several of the coins look like they were cut from 2003 mint sets, not the respective years they were minted.

 

There are a lot of people who don't like moderns, or especially the prices they seem to bring, but these were coins that I think most people could appreciate. I looked at an MS-68 Bust Quarter that had great toning, and side by side with the MS-69 Specimen Kennedy, I enjoyed both equally. There are 1,000's of 1964 Kennedys slabbed, but these few were special.

 

Andy,

 

Didn't look at any of the quarters -- I felt guilty about looking at 30 lots. Normally an employee will pull the lots for me and let me look at them in the main gallery, so I try to keep the number I ask to see down.

 

Greg,

 

AT or not AT, still the prettiest 64-D (or P for that matter) I've seen. Most Kennedy collectors will call it market acceptable.

 

Russ,

 

My notes even say that I wasn't real pleased at 67, and would probably call it a 66.7 or 66.8. Too many marks on the eagle and on the tail feathers. It was the only coin that I saw that just stuck out as being overgraded in my opinion, either service. A couple of pieces, both services I felt that luster got a point jump or pushed a liner over the edge, but this one I felt uncomfortable seeing in that holder.

[gmarguli]

As for the Kennedy, the toning is something all right. Identical to at least one other GASSED one.

Greg- You're making me believe you think if it's a Kennedy, and it's toned, it's AT! (Heck, you're probably right though. . . )

 

 

Not all toned Kennedy’s are AT, but I have a strong suspicion that this one is. Someone who owned an identical one told me that his was gassed and this one was done by the same person.

 

True? Maybe? I have no reason to doubt the person.

 

When I saw the coin shortly after it was "made" it was the type of coin that looked like someone fooled with it to bump it from an MS67 to an MS68. Russ said that the coin had originally been in an MS67 slab. I don't know what the toning looked like when it was in the MS67 slab or for how long it was in that slab.

 

My gut feeling is that it was helped. I have no proof, but my gut feeling when looking at the toning and then having that backed up by what another person said (who didn't know my opinion of the coin when he told me) just points too much to the coin being AT.

 

Maybe the owner of the coin (who is a forum member), will post here a little history on the coin?

 

[jom]

Lot 6709, the 1939-D Mercury Dime in MS69FB, is simply stunning.

 

Probably from that hoard in 1996. TomB's coin is prettier.

 

That Kennedy was gassed, IMO. Look at the pattern of the color....

 

jom

[braddick]

Would someone please LINK the coin here? I'd like to see it. Greg- does it look like the one that I had "flipped-in-the-holder" with PCGS at Long Beach? I highly suspect that coin but like the color either way.

 

Also, it takes a little nerve to bust an already PCGS MS67 and work on it. Like Keith stated, the marks are MS66+ so the owner had to believe he was pretty talented to get it into a MS68 holder via the color.

[gmarguli]

Would someone please LINK the coin here? I'd like to see it. Greg- does it look like the one that I had "flipped-in-the-holder" with PCGS at Long Beach? I highly suspect that coin but like the color either way.

 

Also, it takes a little nerve to bust an already PCGS MS67 and work on it. Like Keith stated, the marks are MS66+ so the owner had to believe he was pretty talented to get it into a MS68 holder via the color.

 

Here are the photos:

 

 

 

I believe these are rather flattering photos. While I remember the color more vivid, I also remember the color less well blended.

 

The owner has balls.

[braddick]

That looks EXACTLY like my Kennedy!

 

Even my wife told me the colors (especially the bluish green and purple) looked "caked" on.

 

(Lesson learned: Listen to wife.)

[keithdagen]

Mine has similar blues and purples, but none of the green tinge that is seen on this piece. And the colors are a lot more vibrant in person than the Heritage pics seem to show.

[keithdagen]

(Lesson learned: Listen to wife.)

 

Amaxing how a lady's opinion as to colors is really right on. Advice will work every time.

[Hoot]

Great post Keith! I'm always amazed to hear how a few of you "know THAT coin" so completely. And I'm also always a bit envious to hear about your adventures at Heritage Keith! Hope to hitch a ride with you some time when I'm in TX next!

 

By the way, I took a pair of 64 Kennedies out of a souvenier plastic and cardboard case once, both beautifully toned and well preserved. Each graded 66 at NGC. Lovely an dperfectly matched pieces, and I have to give the storage method all the credit!

 

Hoot

[gmarguli]

Just an update on these coins.

 

Lot 6372 -- 1938-D Jefferson Nickel N-68 -- Very clean fields, a few more marks on Monticello than I would have liked, but this coin had the kind of luster and look of the 94 and 97 SMS issues. A very pretty coin, and definitely one of the nicest pre-war Jeffersons in existence.

 

Supposedly sold for $1,600. Listed in the post-sale section as available for $1840.

 

 

Lot 6709 -- 1939-D Mercury Dime P-69FB -- Could not find a single mark on this coin, and the color was wonderful in person. A strong case could be made for this coin to grade as a perfect coin excepting for a microscopic toning speck that can't be seen with the naked eye. PQ, even accounting for the grade.

 

Sold for $16,100.

 

 

Lot 6864 -- 1958-D Roosevelt Dime N-68* -- This is the prettiest Roosevelt that I have ever seen. Very well struck, I'm betting this piece was graded before the FB designation was announced. Heritage's scans do this piece no justice.

 

Sold for $805. Seems cheap if the coin is solid forthe grade. Someone likely got a bargain.

 

 

Lot 8104 -- 1964 Kennedy N-69 Specimen -- By far, the nicest 1964 Kennedy half I have ever seen, the strike is full, even the pesky tail feathers, and there are no distracting marks anywhere on the coin. Only fripe are the grease stains, and the reverse ones aren't as bad as the obverse. The obverse spot makes it look like Kennedy's got a hanger coming off his nose. The reverse blemishes tend to blend into the toning.

 

Sold for $10,637.50

 

 

Lot 8105 -- 1964-D Kennedy P-68 -- By far, the prettiest 1964 Kennedy half I've ever seen. Very well struck, but there are a lot of small marks that should have held the grade back. I think the toning got the coin bumped a point, because technically, it was no better than PCGS 67's I have seen. The coin was holdered reverse up, but either side could be featured.

 

Supposedly sold for $13,000. Now listed for sale in the post-sale for $14,950. $750 coin + 30¢ of chemicals + $12 resubmission fees during a period of time where PCGS has loosened up = 15K? Um...NO! DS must be smoking crack if he thinks this is a 15K coin. Sorry, but I can't see this coin being worth anything close to that.

 

 

Lot 9055 -- 1971-S Ike Dollar N-68 -- First 68 by either service, coin is booming with luster. I've never seen another 71-S like this piece, probably more marks than you might want for the grade, but the luster swallows the eye.

 

Not Sold. Was listed in the post-sale for something like $2350, but is no longer listed there. Guess someone snapped it up at that price.

 

 

Lot 9058 -- 1972-S Ike Dollar N-69 -- This coin sat right next to a PCGS 69, and I couldn't tell the difference between the two. Both coins seemed to merit the grade, and were above and beyond the other dozen 68's in the box.

 

Sold for $1,322.50. Seems cheap, but given the fact that PCGS appears to have loosened up on the MS69 grade for these, this might be an average price. The 1974-S in PCGS MS69 did not sell and is listed for over $10,000.

 

[keithdagen]

Just an update on these coins.

 

Lot 6372 -- 1938-D Jefferson Nickel N-68 -- Very clean fields, a few more marks on Monticello than I would have liked, but this coin had the kind of luster and look of the 94 and 97 SMS issues. A very pretty coin, and definitely one of the nicest pre-war Jeffersons in existence.

 

Supposedly sold for $1,600. Listed in the post-sale section as available for $1840.

 

Not a bad reserve, surprised someone didn't pick it up.

 

 

Lot 6709 -- 1939-D Mercury Dime P-69FB -- Could not find a single mark on this coin, and the color was wonderful in person. A strong case could be made for this coin to grade as a perfect coin excepting for a microscopic toning speck that can't be seen with the naked eye. PQ, even accounting for the grade.

 

Sold for $16,100.

 

Well, Jason's already fessed up that he screwed up on the bid and did not mean to buy the coin. Whoops. No surprise on the price going into his bid though.

 

 

Lot 6864 -- 1958-D Roosevelt Dime N-68* -- This is the prettiest Roosevelt that I have ever seen. Very well struck, I'm betting this piece was graded before the FB designation was announced. Heritage's scans do this piece no justice.

 

Sold for $805. Seems cheap if the coin is solid forthe grade. Someone likely got a bargain.

 

Consignor just got robbed. This coin was as nice as ANY PCGS 68 in the auction.

 

 

Lot 8104 -- 1964 Kennedy N-69 Specimen -- By far, the nicest 1964 Kennedy half I have ever seen, the strike is full, even the pesky tail feathers, and there are no distracting marks anywhere on the coin. Only fripe are the grease stains, and the reverse ones aren't as bad as the obverse. The obverse spot makes it look like Kennedy's got a hanger coming off his nose. The reverse blemishes tend to blend into the toning.

 

Sold for $10,637.50

 

 

Nicest 1964 Kennedy in exisitence, so if this sets the bar at $11K, how the hell did someone expect a MS-68 to sell for more?

 

Lot 8105 -- 1964-D Kennedy P-68 -- By far, the prettiest 1964 Kennedy half I've ever seen. Very well struck, but there are a lot of small marks that should have held the grade back. I think the toning got the coin bumped a point, because technically, it was no better than PCGS 67's I have seen. The coin was holdered reverse up, but either side could be featured.

 

Supposedly sold for $13,000. Now listed for sale in the post-sale for $14,950. $750 coin + 30¢ of chemicals + $12 resubmission fees during a period of time where PCGS has loosened up = 15K? Um...NO! DS must be smoking crack if he thinks this is a 15K coin. Sorry, but I can't see this coin being worth anything close to that.

 

 

Based on the previous lot, this coin should have been bid to about $8K tops with the toning. But your logic is flawed. This is a $50 coin, not a $750 coin. PCGS gifted it to 67 because of the original toning. Then gave it another gift point with the additional toning. I would struggle to call this a 67*, and a 68 was out of the question.

 

Lot 9055 -- 1971-S Ike Dollar N-68 -- First 68 by either service, coin is booming with luster. I've never seen another 71-S like this piece, probably more marks than you might want for the grade, but the luster swallows the eye.

 

Not Sold. Was listed in the post-sale for something like $2350, but is no longer listed there. Guess someone snapped it up at that price.

 

 

I thought it was a fair price. Someone got a deal in my opinion.

 

Lot 9058 -- 1972-S Ike Dollar N-69 -- This coin sat right next to a PCGS 69, and I couldn't tell the difference between the two. Both coins seemed to merit the grade, and were above and beyond the other dozen 68's in the box.

 

Sold for $1,322.50. Seems cheap, but given the fact that PCGS appears to have loosened up on the MS69 grade for these, this might be an average price. The 1974-S in PCGS MS69 did not sell and is listed for over $10,000.

 

Once again, someone paid attention to the coin over the holder and got a deal.

[braddick]

I love to sub-collect beautifully toned Kennedies and I'll tell you the MS68 (! !) is NO WHERE near worth the selling price. That collector is now stuck for a long, long time as the underbidder probably would pass on a second shot.

 

The MS69 Ike was a bargain. I'd even buy it at something like that and I don't really collect them bright.

 

Neat run of coins overall. Thanks Keith and Greg for the updates and synopsis.