A question on toning and ancients

[Architecht]

 

So there's always alot of debate about original toning versus artificial toning among U.S. coin collectors, and many discussions about whether blast white coin A is more or less attractive than toned coin B.

 

Often the debate centers around wildly colored coins, etc. etc..

 

Anyway, I found myself thinking that you would definitely NOT want an "original skin" ancient if you found one. Essentially it would be so "toned" it wouldn't be attractive, I think... right?

 

So this opens a kind of interesting topic. What's the most attractive state to buy an ancient in? Conserved to perfection with all trace of corrosion removed, or some kind of re-toned state? Or is my assumption wrong, and the most highly valued coins might be super-well preserved 2000 year old coins that toned and have "original skin" as dug up out of the ground but which is attractive? Is it possible for there to be attractive 2000 year old skins on coins?

 

...and more interestingly... whatever the answers are here... they will eventually apply to U.S. coins as the years go on, right?

[MunkyMan95]

I think that an ancient coin with a nice original patina would be a plus.

[WinstonWare]

Interesting question Arch. I really don’t know anything about ancients but I’ll be interested to see what others think.

[cpm9ball]

Yeah, good question, Arch, and I hope someone chimes in with some photo examples.

 

Chris

[gmarguli]

Anyway, I found myself thinking that you would definitely NOT want an "original skin" ancient if you found one. Essentially it would be so "toned" it wouldn't be attractive, I think... right?

 

I'm not sure. Most of the coins I look at are silver, so they should be heavily toned. However, very few are. They also don't usually show their surfaces being stripped. They have a nice covering of light tone. I'm not sure if this is because they are expertly cleaned, were just outright cleaned a long time ago and retoned, or are only lightly toned since they likely spent most of their life buried in the ground.

 

Perhaps they don't tone as much because they are not as pure as coins we are used to?

 

 

 

What's the most attractive state to buy an ancient in? Conserved to perfection with all trace of corrosion removed, or some kind of re-toned state? Or is my assumption wrong, and the most highly valued coins might be super-well preserved 2000 year old coins that toned and have "original skin" as dug up out of the ground but which is attractive? Is it possible for there to be attractive 2000 year old skins on coins?

 

Toning does not equal corrosion.

 

The coins that seem to bring the most money are those that are silvery gray and/or have light gold toning. Bright silver seem to sell poorly.

 

Copper coins seem to sell well with green patina, which I find unattractive.

 

Gold sells well bright.

 

 

...and more interestingly... whatever the answers are here... they will eventually apply to U.S. coins as the years go on, right?

 

Probably not. Slabs have prevent the toning process on many coins.

[Newmismatist]

What's the most attractive state to buy an ancient in? Conserved to perfection with all trace of corrosion removed, or some kind of re-toned state?

 

I have collected Ancients for about 25 years and this is a multi-choice answer - It depends on the metal. For copper, the most valuble are the onse that have a hard green patina - can be apple green or a darker green, but the "Apple" green (think Granny Smith Green) is considered rarer and more desirable - the green results for a copper salt that developes over many years in contact with moisture and often the ground. When Copper coins come from the ground they must be cleaned to remove the dirt and encrustation - otherwise it is not collectable - there are those who make a living cleaning copper coins - they are the plastic surgeons of the ancient coin world - and amoung the dealers, their identies are closely guarded secrets. So for copper coins, the best are those that are high grade, but with the surface encrustation expertly removed, but preserving the copper salt surface that is bonded to the metal, but was covered by dirt and encrustation before being cleaned.

 

On silver coins, a toned surface, but one free from surface encrustation - most often during the cleaning process, all of the toning is removed, and the preferred examples are those that have re-toned from sitting in collectors cabinets.

 

Gold, the most durable in terms of interaction with other compounds, is most likely to have good results from cleaning - high grade gold coins - often found in hoards, can be easily cleaned and often looks like it just came off of the dies - an unfortunate side is that there are counterfits that look like they just came off the dies - and they did!

 

Or is my assumption wrong, and the most highly valued coins might be super-well preserved 2000 year old coins that toned and have "original skin" as dug up out of the ground but which is attractive? Is it possible for there to be attractive 2000 year old skins on coins?

 

Yes there are - but they are the exception not the rule - an example would be a hoard of coins found in a sealed pot that protected them from their environment (usually found buried in the ground, with the sealed pottery jar protecting the contents).

 

...and more interestingly... whatever the answers are here... they will eventually apply to U.S. coins as the years go on, right?

 

Not really - in the 19th and 20th century we've learned how to protect coins from their external environment - so more are preserved and don't become encrusted with dirt and metal salts.