Fun with ICG - My Long Journey Toward Dementia

[TomB]

I dispute your comment about my using the CDN Coin Market Indicator incorrectly - the numbers are there plain as day and this is a fine estimation tool.

It's okay to dispute it; it doesn't change the fact that you are still wrong and are using this entirely incorrectly. Go back and do some homework on what this box really means, by reading the Greysheet explanation and then reading the article they reference, and then think about it.

 

And you have a better quantitative method? Frankly, I think you would have trouble estimating straight line depreciation.

Insults are not the way to debate a point with someone. If you have a valid observation or something of true value to add then it should be able to stand without a personal attack. I never claimed that I had a better universal method of approximating dissimilar product, but I did write that your method was based on a faulty understanding of a box of near-meaningless numbers.

 

I must ask you if you have ever read the primary reference cited in the Greysheet for its table. Since you did not answer that point I will assume that you have never read the material. That's too bad, because it would describe to you how these numbers are obtained and you would be able to understand why they mean so little. Do your homework on the issue and you will understand the idea better.

[Connecticoin]

I dispute your comment about my using the CDN Coin Market Indicator incorrectly - the numbers are there plain as day and this is a fine estimation tool. Rare coin valuation is an estimate at best anyhow.

 

Ignore the advice from TomB and Gmarguli on this at your own peril, if you wish.

 

ICG consistently overgrades MS 66 and higher coins, especially moderns. There are tons of ICG 67 and higher moderns you can buy for a fraction (30% or less) of the PCGS price. Ebay scammers like Blue Moon coins use this to hype those "$100,000 retail value" packages they sell for $5k, which turn out to have ICG graded modern craap worth about $1k or less.

[WinstonWare]

Ignore the advice from TomB and Gmarguli on this at your own peril, if you wish.

 

If you must, but this is not recommended practice

[Houston Investor]

You have your opinion and I have mine. When collectors come up to my table at shows and ask me what the market thinks of ICG coins (I have a good number in my inventory) I cite the CDN table as this is a published table as to the relative value of coins graded by these grading services. In addition, I cite other positive facts about ICG, a grading service I have a high regard for. As far as your generalization that a PCGS 66+ being worth more than an ICG 66+ - I do not agree with you, (1) this is a small difference based on the table (PCGS 100%, ICG 95%), (2 a moot issue from my perspective as I price the coin not who's holder its in, and (3) all the coins I have in my case at shows are coins in which I agree with the grade. Yes, I have seen ICG mods selling for 30% of retail on ebay and this may be a super deal for the buyer. Certainly one reason I have ICG on my ebay search menu! As far as insults, speak for yourself as I am not the one defaming Blue Moon.

[Beijim]

This is freaking hilarious and one of the best laughs I've had in a long time. Thank you, Greg.

 

Beijim

[ziggy29]

In addition, I cite other positive facts about ICG, a grading service I have a high regard for.

I also have a high regard for them -- when we're talking about authentication or about coins below about MS-64.

 

As far as your generalization that a PCGS 66+ being worth more than an ICG 66+ - I do not agree with you, (1) this is a small difference based on the table (PCGS 100%, ICG 95%), (2 a moot issue from my perspective as I price the coin not who's holder its in, and (3) all the coins I have in my case at shows are coins in which I agree with the grade. Yes, I have seen ICG mods selling for 30% of retail on ebay and this may be a super deal for the buyer. Certainly one reason I have ICG on my ebay search menu! As far as insults, speak for yourself as I am not the one defaming Blue Moon.

Have you sold PCGS 66s and ICG 66s in the same series? If you're getting 95% of the PCGS price, you must be doing something right the rest of us don't know about.

 

I like ICG for coins below the MS-64/65 grade level. As far as circulated and low MS classics go, I rank them right up there with anyone. But for MS-65+ coins, particularly moderns? Not even close, in my experience.

[Houston Investor]

I like ICG's grading - have no problem with it. I like the idea the graders don't know who's name is on the invoice and the way their holders stack. And their fees are reasonable too. It really irks me people would want to make fun of ICG.

 

Currently I have two PCGS coins that badly need a dip - due to pvc. Not expensive coins and not much chance of an upgrade - so after dipping I will send them to ICG (more economical). In addition ICG only requires a minimum submission of 5 for economy at my dealer rate of $12. Will pick 3 raw mods to send along. Still mulling sending a coupla of my BU rolls from the 1950's for their prescreen (they only charge u if the coins makes the minimum grade) - great deal. But paying more money than I have in the coin just to have graded sorta makes me hold up and just try to sell them raw double bubble. Whether a coin is ICG 64, PCGS 64, or raw 64 I will price it at MS 64 money. I price the coin, not who's holder its in.

I once had some guy at a coin show walk up to my table and try to argue me with about the price of a coin "don't you discount ANACS coins" - citing the blue sheet bid which was $120 vs PCGS $180. I layed $120 on the table and said "have one you want to sell me?" The nit wit then walked off. Money talks - BS walks.

 

All this nonsense by coin collectors about who's holder its in seems really silly to me since I also do currency where much of it is raw and only in last coupla years have TPG's become seriously involved. Many of the established major currency dealers still refuse to use TPG's and for National Bank Notes probably totaly unnecessary as almost all are circulated.

[gmarguli]

Currently I have two PCGS coins that badly need a dip - due to pvc. Not expensive coins and not much chance of an upgrade - so after dipping I will send them to ICG (more economical).

 

Send them to PCGS to remove the PVC for free.

 

 

In addition ICG only requires a minimum submission of 5 for economy at my dealer rate of $12.

 

They have no minimum for dealers.

 

 

Still mulling sending a coupla of my BU rolls from the 1950's for their prescreen (they only charge u if the coins makes the minimum grade) - great deal.

 

Same for NGC & PCGS.

[Shamika-migration]

gmarguli - You just made my short list of "Favorite Forum Members" after reading this thread. Intelligent, educational, funny, it has it all!

[Bruceswar]

I just went back and reread the thread again. Fun stuff

[jom]

This thread is lame.

 

1) PCGS would have done a better job AND guarenteed the coins back in FAR less than one to two months.

 

2) Everyone friggen knows that Greg and TomB are morans. Those dimwits don't know their arse from a hole in the coin. Listen to them at your numismatic peril.

 

3) My GOD. How can anyone not know the CDN market index can help accurately calculate the exact price for any coin in any grade to the third decimal place? I've been doing it for years and have never over paid for any coin. NEVER.

 

4) Dodger silver rounds? What a chicken-*spoon*. Why didn't you send in Dodger Dogs? PCGS would have graded them.

 

Only losers start crappy threads like this.

 

jom

[jgrinz]

Newbies thanks to Greg

 

[MikeInFL]

Nice coins!

 

BTW, for all you ICG fans, they are running a "$99 for 7 coin grades" special, which was sent via e-mail:

 

"Take advantage of this limited time offer as many times as you'd like before June 30, 2007. You save $135 on every 7-coin submission special you purchase. We realize you have a choice in third-party grading services and this offer is ICG's way of thanking our customers for their ongoing loyalty to the ICG brand.

 

Any seven coins valued up to $5,000 each

15 Day Service

All for just $99 - including return shipping and insurance."

 

Hope this helps someone...Mike

[dooly]

this post is a right laff

[gmarguli]

I sadly must inform everyone that I have received my second rejection from the grading company of "we'll grade anything".

 

 

I'm sure everyone here is fully aware of what this is, but just in case there is a single person out there who does not know what this is, it is an Early Colonial Peru Gold Fish Hook money. It dates C. 16th-17th Century. It's from the Southern Coast area of Peru. It was sometimes used by the native Indians and seen earlier by the Moche civilization. They're pretty rare.

 

If anyone from NGC reads this, if you'll actually put this in a slab and grade it, I'll show my appreciation by submitting 1,000 coins the next month! Ken? Jay? Anyone?

[WinstonWare]

Early Colonial Peru Gold Fish Hook

 

I like it (thumbs u

[michael]

they got to make their high salaries one way or another

 

extremely unprofessional

 

 

[rbrown4]

Just curious, did you call them to give them a heads up on what it was or anything. I tried a similar thing with ANACS on a "special coin" which fell on deaf ears, however I was able to actually talk to the person that evaluated the coin because I has specifically requested in writing a detailed explanation of the end result no matter what.

 

Interesting info. by the way Greg on the fish hook.

 

Rey

[gmarguli]

I wrote some info about it on the submission form so that they knew where to start. I don't know too much about it, but I gave them what I had.

[conqueror]

I have never read this thread before and it's very funny. Nice work Greg.

 

John

[JamminJ]

We won't bite on this one!

 

lol lol lol

[Just Bob]

physics-fan3.14 mentioned this very funny thread in another post, and I remembered seeing it when I was lurking, so I thought I would bring it back up for the new guys to enjoy

[stinkycheese1]

Hey I remember this post! Funny stuff.

 

[RI AL]

Hey, Greg.

 

WOW! I sure enjoyed your ICG post. Thanks so much for the education and entertainment. I suppose that slug that I found on a construction site might make AU 55. Bets...anyone??

 

I still think I will take them up on their 2 for 1 offer...as soon as I find 10 foreign pieces worth the effort and $. I have 3 picked put...but have a few Peru/Bolivia pieces obtained during our overseas years that I might sent too.

 

Again, thanks. really enjoyed your post!

 

RI Al

[thebeav]

Wow....That's some pretty impressive stuff.

Does ICG still encapsulate everything numismatics related?

I'd like to send them some stuff...

 

Paul

[cpm9ball]

Wow....That's some pretty impressive stuff.

Does ICG still encapsulate everything numismatics related?

I'd like to send them some stuff...

 

Paul

 

You'll have to ask Greg. He's the specialist.

 

Chris

[WinstonWare]

This is one of my favorite threads

[cpm9ball]

This is one of my favorite threads

 

If they gave a Pulitzer Prize for numismatics, Greg should get it.

 

Chris

[Mozin]

ICG graded very well their first year of operation, and I have owned a number of nice coins graded in that year. Too bad ICG's reputation has deteriorated to put them now out of the PCGS/NGC/ANACS group.

[DC Dawg]

ICG graded very well their first year of operation, and I have owned a number of nice coins graded in that year. Too bad ICG's reputation has deteriorated to put them now out of the PCGS/NGC/ANACS group.

I don't put ANACS in that group either. Not after James Taylor bought the company and started over grading moderns to sell on TV.

 

Scott