Coin collector's nightmares!

[lclugza]

OK, we had a coin dealer's nightmares, now post some of a coin collector's worst nightmares!

[Elcontador]

IMO (so I can't be successfully sued), in no particular order:

 

1) Most items sold on Ebay

2) Teletrade (I looked at the site once for five minutes & almost needed a barf bag)

3) Home Shopping Network

4) Most advertisements to buy or sell coins.

 

The bottom line for me is to know with whom I am doing business. If I don't know the individual or company personally, I'll get references from people I trust.

[lclugza]

Accugrade

 

Anyone selling a coin who says "I ain't no coin expert, just look at the picture and judge for yerself, it's from Grandpa's hoard and he didn't know nothing about coins"

 

Most of the coins already mentioned in the "Coin dealer's nightmares" thread!

 

 

[lclugza]

And of course those toned PCGS MS64 1884S and 1897O Morgans that you cracked out, and were going to send back to PCGS to get a potential higher grade; seems your little boy got hold of them, and got them real shiny, by giving them a bath of baking soda and water!

[gmarguli]

Changing grading standards at the grading services.

 

Sending coins to PCG$ and having them covered in fingerprints.

 

The fact that some day the people who pay insane prices for ultra high grade super moderns will wake up and realize they aren't worth it. The amount of income I'd lose from this could be staggering.

[truthteller]

PCGS decides to change the MS scale from 60-70 to 60-80.

 

TRUTH

[Oldtrader3]

Any advertizement selling raw coins from "Estate". Or advertizements with prominently displayed dealer's picture and "Bible Salesman" Bio.

[Dermott]

Hmmm... I'd have to say paying several hundred to thousands of dollars for a key date/MM coin only to have it returned as altered when you try to get it certified.

 

Buying in at the top of the hype-curve on a particular coin/series/grade level, then watching the prices drop to 10% of the high at which you bought them.

 

Having seen a "key" coin for your collection (either a key date in a sweet grade or a very rare type/variety), you return with the funds to purchase it... only to see someone walking away from the counter with the coin and a receipt.

 

[braddick]

L@@K!!!! Monster Rainbow Toned!! "Top Pop!" "The Market Is Sizzzzzzling HOT!!"

[MikeKing]

PCGS decides to change the MS scale from 60-70 to 60-80

 

My worst nightmare, TRUTH!

[kranky]

The major services acknowledge that mint state coins can grade a point differently either way, so the guarantees are altered to accomodate that.

[BodyBag]

My nightmare is driving 45 minutes in bumper-to-bumper traffic to a coin store and behind the counter is a self-important sexually frustrated slob who is too busy updating his website to get a coin out of the case, and who's coin prices are right out of Coin Prices magazine and he won't budge because he could sell it on-line for 30% more. He laments about the demise of brick-and-mortar stores and blames eBay for his troubles. He can't sell me the coin in the case today because it's "on hold" - check back later. Uh huh, sure.

 

[paigow_johnny]

I think I've been to that shop

[true_grade]

going blind

[Leothelion]

The troublesome fact that a coin's value is determined by the wealth of the bidders.

The rarer the coin, the weathier the bidders! If your wealthy but a loser in the rare coin market, then your likely collecting moderns. Does that make any sense? That's right, put your faith in PCG$. Way to go!

 

Leo

 

Remember, there are enough coins for everyone.

[cladking]

The troublesome fact that a coin's value is determined by the wealth of the bidders.

The rarer the coin, the weathier the bidders! If your wealthy but a loser in the rare coin market, then your likely collecting moderns. Does that make any sense? That's right, put your faith in PCG$. Way to go!

 

Leo

 

 

You might want to actually look to see how we losers are actually doing. Most of the moderns that people actually collect are still doubling in price every couple years or more frequently. Many raw coins worth hundreds of dollars can still be found for very nominal prices. Collectors who know what they're doing are doing fantastically when they go to sell and are having a blast in the mean time.

 

 

[gmarguli]

You might want to actually look to see how we losers are actually doing. Most of the moderns that people actually collect are still doubling in price every couple years or more frequently.

 

Some yes and some no. Lots of PR69 coins sold for SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS years ago. Those coins sell for less than the slabbing fee today. The state quarters have all pretty much gone down in value. The PR70 market is fake.

 

For the most part the top pops are going up in value. All the others are going down.

 

 

[ChrystaWilson-migration]

First Post!

 

You ever have someone (usually an family member or acquaintance) find out you collect coins and then they want you to tell them what their holed, cleaned, or really common coins are worth...and then they get mad at you when you tell them the truth? My nightmare is that everyone I meet does this to me.

[cladking]

 

For the most part the top pops are going up in value. All the others are going down.

 

 

This part is not true. Lots of the harder to find moderns are still escalating rapidly in value. A nice roll of 83-P quarters can not be had anymore for less than about $800. If you can find it. While all the Roosies are hardly soaring in price, what do you think the FB coins are going for? These are the coins that people have been looking for. Modern collectors do often just assemble nice attractive sets and even these are much higher than a few years ago. But if they try to assemble gem sets then the prices are simply soaring. Few of these coins even in low grade gem aren't up substantially. Halves actually sell now and prices of $5 or $10 each are hardly uncommon. These coins went begging at $1 just three years ago. FB clad Roosies were a tough sell at a few dollars six months ago and now some are becoming recognized rarities. (or at least they are in the process).

 

I'm familiar with no MS regular issue modern which has come down at all in the last couple years and many, especially the collector issues, are much higher.

 

Even the proof issues probably haven't come down so much because of decreasing demand as it is a more available supply. It is likely that demand will continue to grow on these and while prices may never recover, it would be expected that they will reverse direction.

[Oldtrader3]

My worst nightmare was when slabs became the industry standard and grading standards changed almost overnight, as an example, market graded (unslabbed) MS65, $800, 1926-D Peace Dollars became slabbed MS63/64's, worth $80. Then on top of that, the whole market pricing structure, grade for grade, deflated 70% (or more). So, it took a much better coin to sell for less.

 

Dealer greed and double-grading (i.e buy vs. sell) drove away the investor base and further fed the market contraction. It felt like a revenue death spiral into a Black Hole. I almost quit at that point. I finally, decided to forget past loses and look at (unrealistic) low prices for good quality material as an opportunity and started buying again.

[RGT]

First Post!

 

You ever have someone (usually an family member or acquaintance) find out you collect coins and then they want you to tell them what their holed, cleaned, or really common coins are worth...and then they get mad at you when you tell them the truth? My nightmare is that everyone I meet does this to me.

 

Welcome, not from across the street, but from up the street at RCC. You now have the opportunity to be ignored like the rest of the unknowns here. Of course I seem to get ignored wherever I go. Like my recent post to RCC about my new half dime purchase. Or my post in the Numisma-Quest group to the moderator there which was never made public or even answered with a PM.

 

You need to stir up controversy to get noticed. Here you can get some attention posting pictures of "monster" coins too. I don't post enough to merit any actual replies. Maybe you will do better.

 

I don't tell many people that I collect coins. That way they they don't bother me with their junk. I'm sure the chances that I missed out seeing someones treasures is very slim and that's the risk I'm willing to take.

 

[EVillageProwler]

Chrysta - welcome!

 

RGT - belated welcome! Sometimes not being noticed is a blessing!

 

EVP

 

[RGT]

RGT - belated welcome! Sometimes not being noticed is a blessing!

 

EVP

 

Quite often, actually. Especially when the boss is coming, looking for someone to give that "special" assignment to.

 

[gmarguli]

I'm familiar with no MS regular issue modern which has come down at all in the last couple years and many, especially the collector issues, are much higher.

 

State quarters. The 1999 rolls were selling for $50 each. Now you can't give them away for $20. You'd be lucky to get $15 for a roll.

 

Practically all slabbed state quarters have come down. I used to sell the PR69DCAM for $30-$40. Now I can't get $20 for them. The MS67s that used to bring $75 are bringing $15. The MS68s that brought $250 are bringing $40. The MS69s that sold for $5000+ are selling for $500-$700 right now. The pops for these coins are exploding.

 

Lots of the clad Washingtons are down. I sold some 1982-D in MS66 for around $200 a few years ago. Now they are $35 coins. 1970-D in MS67 for $125 are now $25.

 

I sold lots of Kennedys in MS67 for $100 year ago. Today I'd be lucky to get $40 for them.

 

The FB Roosevelts might be going up in value, but the non-FB are going down. listen to all the people whine about it on the registry forum across the street.

 

 

Even the proof issues probably haven't come down so much because of decreasing demand as it is a more available supply. It is likely that demand will continue to grow on these and while prices may never recover, it would be expected that they will reverse direction.

 

Does it really matter why the price is coming down? The fact is that the prices for the proofs have crashed. No one wants to say the "c" word, but it is true. When you can't get the slabbing fee back on a PR69DCAM then you know the market is dead.

 

 

Also, some of the MS roll prices you see in the sheets are misleading. Try selling some of the cent rolls at bid and you can't get it. The prices that are going up are for UNSEARCHED rolls where people are hoping to hit the lottery.

[cladking]

I should have been more specific. I consider moderns to be '65-'98 and the later coins to be ultra moderns.

 

I wasn't really referring to pop tops and high grade coins, but wasn't aware that any of these had come down. Certainly there is still a lot of sorting out taking place in the moderns and as more coins get graded it's not surprising that some are found to be less rare than initially believed.

 

And yes. I would agree that the prices of many of the PR-69's have crashed. It's likely that part of the cause of this is the looser standards for PR-70 and the current 69's are now just considered the dregs after all the good ones were resubmitted for a higher grade. In any case there should be some recovery in the prices of some of these coins as demand absorbs those on the market. While two to four million of these is a substantial mintage, there have been many lost to attrition and mishandling. PR-69 is a high grade for some of these issues.

 

It was obvious as early as 1988 that many of the proofs were dramatically overpriced. This is why NGC wouldn't even grade the coins for years.

[ChrystaWilson-migration]

First Post!

 

You ever have someone (usually an family member or acquaintance) find out you collect coins and then they want you to tell them what their holed, cleaned, or really common coins are worth...and then they get mad at you when you tell them the truth? My nightmare is that everyone I meet does this to me.

 

Welcome, not from across the street, but from up the street at RCC. You now have the opportunity to be ignored like the rest of the unknowns here. Of course I seem to get ignored wherever I go. Like my recent post to RCC about my new half dime purchase. Or my post in the Numisma-Quest group to the moderator there which was never made public or even answered with a PM.

 

You need to stir up controversy to get noticed. Here you can get some attention posting pictures of "monster" coins too. I don't post enough to merit any actual replies. Maybe you will do better.

 

I don't tell many people that I collect coins. That way they they don't bother me with their junk. I'm sure the chances that I missed out seeing someones treasures is very slim and that's the risk I'm willing to take.

 

I honestly don't remember seeing that post on RCC, and I usually read just about everything there. But then, everyone is so caught up in bidding on and being blocked by AH-Collectibles that there is little else going on there!

 

I generally don't tell people I collect coins either. For pretty much the same reasons.

[EZ_E]

Greg stated:

State quarters. The 1999 rolls were selling for $50 each. Now you can't give them away for $20. You'd be lucky to get $15 for a roll.

 

 

Greg,

What's your opinion about state quarter rolls in US mint rolls (selling for $32.50 from the mint)? Do you think that original rolls have a chance for much appreciation in the future (especially considering that the buyer already had paid a healthy premium from the mint).

[BillJones]

Greg,

What's your opinion about state quarter rolls in US mint rolls (selling for $32.50 from the mint)? Do you think that original rolls have a chance for much appreciation in the future (especially considering that the buyer already had paid a healthy premium from the mint).

I'm not Greg, but I'll tell you want I think.

 

The mint wrapped state quarter rolls are like the mint sewn mini bags. What you are buying here is a PACKAGE, which consists of the mint container plus the coins. Since you can’t see the coins (or at least only 2 sides in the roll), the coins are really secondary. Collectors who like this stuff are mainly interested in the originality of the package. If you crack the roll or open the bag, a lot of the value is GONE.

 

I don’t care for this material at all. I think that it is a fad at best and that the prices, if they are well over the issue price or even at the issue price, are bound to fall.

 

Just as an aside I noticed that the stand-up comedians on Shop at Home were offering complete sets of the new commemorative half dollars from the 1982 Washington to the Capital Visitors’ Center in NGC PR-69 Cameo the other night. The price was “only” about $46 per coin.

 

When "Dump at Home" is mass marketing something you can bet that the supply of product is quite large. My advice: Run away as fast you can if you respect your pocketbook.

[RGT]

I honestly don't remember seeing that post on RCC, and I usually read just about everything there. But then, everyone is so caught up in bidding on and being blocked by AH-Collectibles that there is little else going on there!

 

I generally don't tell people I collect coins either. For pretty much the same reasons.

 

Yes, there is a lot of noise over there recently. I even participated in the AH fun and got my account blocked. I'm selective about what I read so it's easy for something to slip by me.

 

It's probably my fault for picking a lame title for the thread. It was something about the "mighty have fallen". I bought a half dime from a gentleman on ebay who found it in his fathers "estate". Just one coin that he bought back in Nov. 1989. It's an 1870 NGC MS-64. I was just sharing how the prices have fallen so drastically since the peak of the hype back then. They even sent me the original sales receipt.

 

I picked up the coin from the PO this morning. I wasn't going to bother with a follow-up since everyone was too busy arguing and badmouthing "satan" to talk about coins.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Welcome to this site! One thing in the coin industry that always triggers my instinct to flee are the words "coins from Estate". There may be actual coins from Estates out there occasionally, but I bet that 90% of coins advertized this way are overgraded raw coins, particularly on EBay.