What percentage of 1936-42 proof sets rests in their original box?

[SethChandler-migration]

Any idea?

 

Seth

[truthteller]

I buy estates. Many, many times, coins remain 'undiscovered' until the estate is sold or the heirs sell off the items. Once in a great while, a cool deal of coins comes around, fresh, unopened proof, mint sets or commems in original holders. I used to buy estates 15 times a year, of those, maybe 10% has tremendously fresh coins, of those 25% had nice original proof sets Never have purchased a original 36-42 proof set though. But, if you multiply me tiimes the number of estate buyers out there, I'm sure several sets turn up each year. My guess, by 2015, most of the owners of these proof sets will have died and the heirs will have put them on the marketplace.

 

TRUTH

[JD-migration]

I would "guess" not more than 20%

[MarkFeld]

I would "guess", not more than a very small fraction of 1%.

[JD-migration]

My guess was made considering the time span specified, 36~42. Obviously I have no idea but ventured a guess considering all the years. If just the 36, I gotta agree, <1%, 37 <5%, and increasing slightly each year up to the 42. Value has a lot to do with removal. My original guess of 20% is the absolute top side. (Probably way too optimistic)

[IrishMike]

As a long time collector of the coins, I would guess less than 5% still remain intact. They were broken up over the years and sold off as singles.

[Julian]

I have never owned one or even seen one. My guess that the total # of original 1936-42 proof sets in the original boxes is less than 50, possibly less than 10.

[lclugza]

What did the original boxes look like?

 

You must remember that from 1936-42, single Proof coins could be bought from the Mint.

[cladking]

I used to see them on rare occasion back in the 70's. It seems likely that at least a few of these were set aside by speculators or collectors at that time. It also seems likely that as many as 2% are still in the hands of the original purchaser. It's a tough question, but I'd have to guess that the number is closer to 5%. Of course some of these may be degraded from storage. If there really are this many than it's safe to say that they are in very strong hands and even much higher prices probably wouldn't cause them to surface.

[gmarguli]

I would guess that most of the original owners of these sets are dead. If they purchased a set in 1942, that's 61 years. I figure they'd probably be at least 20 to purchase the set. That's 81 years old.

 

These sets were not purchased in quantity like the mid-1950+ sets where finding unopened boxes of 100 sets is rather easy.

 

I would guess that VERY few, probably <2% are still in their original boxes. The original housing from the mint was not good for storing these coins.

 

In the late 1980s a dealer I knew had 3 original sets. They were brought into his shop from a non-collector. The coins were in cellophane baggies and in tiny cardboard boxes. I assume this is how they were issued? The sets were clearly original. They all had the same look and toning patterns (which wasn't attractive). I hope no one will kill me when I say that I dipped them, slabbed some of the coins, and sold them off individually.

 

Since then I rarely encounter original sets even if they aren't in their boxes of issue. The coins are either dipped blast white or clearly just don't look like an original set.

 

Many years ago I was able to purchase a matte proof Lincoln cent (1913?) that was housed in an EXTREMELY old cellophane-type envelope. It was so old that the you couldn't even bend it because it would crack. On the inside the envelope had turned into an oil. I don't have any idea if this is how these coins were issued from the mint, buy I've never seen one like this since.

 

The dealer didn't know anything about the envelope and assumed it was from an old collection. Luckily, he also didn't know anything about the coin and sold it to me as an MS.

[shirohniichan]

If anyone comes across original mint packaging from way back when, I'd appreciate a good photo of it. I've read the descriptions before, but I've never actually seen what the packaging looks like.

[GDJMSP]

To the best of my knowledge - there was no box for the 36 - 42 Proof sets. The boxes - with the coins in small cellophane slips stapled together - were not used for Proof set packaging until 1950.

 

For the Proof coins from 36 - 42 the only type of package that I have been able to verify was a yellowish tissue paper wrapped around each coin.

 

edit - Had to go look it up. If a collector did purchase a full set of Proof coins - the Mint employees used whatever was at hand - including a variety of boxes and envelopes. So there was no particular package for the 36 - 42 Proof sets but it would have been possible to get them in a box. However - since it was not a standardized package - proving that it was the original would be very difficult.

[michael]

extremely very few to none

 

the majority of the sets 36 to 42 were mostly broken up in the 1950's to 1970's most huge lots and deals 50 100 200 500 even1000 sets (1940 41 42) at a time broken up in the 50's for the walker!!!!!! and merc with the rest dumped

 

sincerely michael

 

 

 

 

[rgv]

Lot #7839 from Heritage Long Beach Signature sale last month was a 1940 proof set in original cellophane. Sorry there wern't any pictures. $1955 was to rich for me

[braddick]

I agree with Michael. I bet there is less than five- if any at all.

I've never seen an original set- ever, in the 30 years I've collected and have not heard of one for sale other than a put-together set that was claimed original.

[SethChandler-migration]

Are you guys sure? Aren't these esimates conservative? When I worked in a coin store as a teenager we must have handled 10 to 15 sets. And that was only 15 years ago. If memory serves me correct, the boxes were the same as the ones from the early 1950's.

 

Seth

[gmarguli]

Are you guys sure? Aren't these esimates conservative? When I worked in a coin store as a teenager we must have handled 10 to 15 sets. And that was only 15 years ago. If memory serves me correct, the boxes were the same as the ones from the early 1950's.

 

15 years ago was 1988 and every coin wasn't slabbed. 15 years ago you could buy lots of EXPENSIVE coins raw. Finding mint state bust dollars, proof early gold, and key dates raw was still common and didn't cause people to start chanting that they MUST be something wrong with the coin.

 

Since then most coin collectors have forgotten how to grade and detect counterfeits and problems and now require every coin they own, including pocket change, to be in a slab.

 

Now most all those sets have been dipped and slabbed. No reason to have the set remain intact. Why have a set that includes a 1¢ in PF64RD, 5¢ in PR66, 10¢ in PF67, 25¢ in PR66, and 50¢ in PF64? It's easy to pick a grade you want and sell the others off and buy coins that match your grade. Too many people buy grade now and not the coin itself.

 

[GDJMSP]

Part of the problem for finding original sets for these years is that there were very few sets to begin with. Even with the low mintage numbers that are listed for the sets - from 3,837 for '36 to 21,120 for the '42 ( only the last 3 yrs are over 10,000 ) - you have to take into account that those numbers only reflect the maximum number of full sets possible. Since records for full set sales were not kept - at least none have ever been found - the number of sets is based on the Proof coin for the year with the lowest mintage.

 

So first of all you have to estimate of the total possible sets - how many were actually sold ? Let's say 20% of the coins were sold as part of a full set. That makes for some pretty low numbers - 800 to 5,000 sets depending on the year. Out of those subtract all the sets that were placed in holders - broken up - lost etc. over the years. If even 10% survived intact - which I would highly doubt - you don't have many left.

 

Now I have actively searched for original examples of these sets for the past 5 yrs - and I have not yet found even one for any of the years. I wish I would have seen the auction mentioned in another post - I would have bought it.

[BillJones]

I've been a collector for over 40 years and a dealer for nine years. Over that time I have handled only one 1942 proof set that was probably in the original wrappers.

 

You must remember that Proof coins were sold as single pieces back then. Collectors did not have to buy complete sets. The set that I did handle had all the coins in some old cellophane sleeves. Some of the sleeves had turned yellow and had oddly enough given the coins some attractive toning. The sleeves were not stapled together as they were during the 1950 to ’55 period.

 

I’d say that the number of 1936 to ’42 Proof sets that are still in the original packaging is pretty close to zero. In fact the number of original Proof sets from the era is pretty low and getting lower. There is a great incentive to cherry pick the best coins from the sets and have them slabbed. The rest of the set is combined with some lower quality coins and sold raw if the coins are not great.