MS70 reacts with oxidated copper surfaces.

[relicsncoins]

Hey Truth, any chance you can post a few sample photos for us?

 

thanks,

 

JJ

[HaydenTubbs]

Hey Truth, any chance you can post a few sample photos for us?

 

thanks,

 

JJ

 

 

He has thing against pictures...

[BAJJERFAN]

<<"So why does MS70 turn copper coins blue, violet, etc? It reacts with the thin film of oxidated copper/bronze">>

 

I would imagine that there is something in the MS70 maybe thiourea that reacts with the oxidized copper ions on the surface of the coin forming a complex which is different in color. Sorta like taking copper sulfate in water which is blue and adding ammonia to it to intensify the blue color.

[truthteller]

Hey Truth, any chance you can post a few sample photos for us?

 

thanks,

 

JJ

 

 

He has thing against pictures...

 

Well, considering I have to buy a camera, software, and build a box/lamp to photograph the coins, I'll pass. But, you are more than welcome to fly out here, set up the equipment, photograph the coins, then fly home.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[Bruceswar]

Hey Truth, any chance you can post a few sample photos for us?

 

thanks,

 

JJ

 

 

He has thing against pictures...

 

Well, considering I have to buy a camera, software, and build a box/lamp to photograph the coins, I'll pass. But, you are more than welcome to fly out here, set up the equipment, photograph the coins, then fly home.

 

 

 

TRUTH

 

What about JamminJ? He is not too far away from you?? and takes great pics. Maybe you and him could hook up.

[gmarguli]

Hey Truth, any chance you can post a few sample photos for us?

 

thanks,

 

JJ

 

 

He has thing against pictures...

 

Well, considering I have to buy a camera, software, and build a box/lamp to photograph the coins, I'll pass. But, you are more than welcome to fly out here, set up the equipment, photograph the coins, then fly home.

 

 

 

TRUTH

 

What about JamminJ? He is not too far away from you?? and takes great pics. Maybe you and him could hook up.

 

I think you're confusing where I live and where Truth lives. JamminJ is not far from *me*. It'd be a rather long drive for Truth. Probably 4+ hours or so.

[Bruceswar]

Hey Truth, any chance you can post a few sample photos for us?

 

thanks,

 

JJ

 

 

He has thing against pictures...

 

Well, considering I have to buy a camera, software, and build a box/lamp to photograph the coins, I'll pass. But, you are more than welcome to fly out here, set up the equipment, photograph the coins, then fly home.

 

 

 

TRUTH

 

 

What about JamminJ? He is not too far away from you?? and takes great pics. Maybe you and him could hook up.

 

I think you're confusing where I live and where Truth lives. JamminJ is not far from *me*. It'd be a rather long drive for Truth. Probably 4+ hours or so.

 

You are correct. I knew you and Jammin live close, but I was under the impression truth was not too far away either. Thanks for clearing that up.

[HaydenTubbs]

Hey Truth, any chance you can post a few sample photos for us?

 

thanks,

 

JJ

 

 

He has thing against pictures...

 

Well, considering I have to buy a camera, software, and build a box/lamp to photograph the coins, I'll pass. But, you are more than welcome to fly out here, set up the equipment, photograph the coins, then fly home.

 

 

 

TRUTH

 

Are you paying

[Newmismatist]

In response to the an ongoing thread here (the one with Greg's colorful coins referenced as improper storage) and one started by Mark Feld across the street which I have posted extensively to, I went out and bought a bottle of MS70 to start making Blue coins (You have no idea how hard it is to find that stuff - all the coin dealers who had stores now sell baseball cards or jewlery) Finally find a guy who 2 bottles in the back covered with dust, one was in a black bottle - one in a clear bottle - I bought em both - don't know if they're both the same chemical BUT they are made by the same company and both say MS70 and both say they won't affect the toning on copper nickel or silver.

 

The experiment (so far)

 

I took about 30 common date Lincoln cents from the 60s and 70s - in varying degrees of RD, RB and BN-RB with red in the protected areas. Cleaned them all.

 

1. MS70 is the "slickest" stuff you can imagine - after I cleaned the coins with a Q-tip per the instructions I held the coins under running warm water and the coins were extremely slippery and slick - dropped a couple at first because they were so slippery - it took a lot of water to rinse them and get rid of that slippery feeling.

 

2. The Q-Tips turned black very quickly - used up a lot of Q-tips.

 

3. None of the RD, RB or BN-RB coins turned "Blue" color like any of the coins in the several threads that display "Blue" coins - if they had splotchy toning before - they had a splotchy toning after, but noy blue.

 

4. 1 coin that was dark and discolored had very slight bluish highlites after the coin was rinsed and dried - I would not call it a toned blue coin, I would say it has sort of a "burned" look on the highpoints, but it did look cleaner and "brighter" where it didn't have the splotchy toning. If it were a valuble coin it would have been ruined - but it was quite unattractive before the MS70, so I guess I would conclude if it looks funky before it will look funky after

 

5. The RB coins all brightened up considerably - if they had fingerprints or spots before - they had fingerprints and spots after - a bit lighter and the whole coin had a much nicer look - those coins were not ruined, a few looked much better and might grade 64 or so - a couple that were RB would now be Red.

 

6. I next removed a 1963 Proof cent from it's originally mint packaging - It was lightly toned and a bit hazy - it probably would have graded PR65-66 as it looked and it might have been a liner between RD/RB. I really soaked the Q-tip so the MS70 dripped and held it over the coin and let the MS70 drip onto the coin. Instantaneaous results! The light tone and the haze literally diappeared and the coin looked very bight and very RED! - Not a lick of blue anywhere, but the coin was definately improved - when rinsed and patted dry a very light tone reappeared, but still lighter and much brighter than before the cleaning but NOT Pink like if dipped in acid. Coin would definately grade and IMHO probably higher than before the cleaning.

 

7. I next got a 19th century Medal (about the size of a Morgan dollar) It was a dark chocolate brown proof - according to the flip it was in I paid $35 for it and it had been stored in a soft flip. After having read Truths comments in this post earlier tonight, I was sure I would get a blue coin - A chocolate brown coin is heavily oxidized - that's why it's brown - there was no red on this medal at all. It took more than 10 Q-Tips to clean this coin. The Q-Tips turned very black. I kept swabbing the coin until they were no longer turning black and rinsed (and rinsed and rinsed) the medal until there was no more slick feeling on the medal - The medal did NOT turn blue - no hint of blue not even bluish highlights when rotated in the light - the coin is now a lighter chocolate brown, much brighter - the Proof surfaces are much more reflective overall the coin looks cleaner and it has much more "POP" than it did before the cleaning.

 

8. I cannot conclude that toned (oxidized) copper turns blue using MS70 based on this limited experiment. I don't think CuO (Copper Oxide) reacts with the MS70 to tone the coin, I think the MS70 reacts with whatever surface contaminents are on on the coin as the Q-tips definately turned black. - BUT going back to the ugly coin that got ruined, it had a little greenish look to it - don't know if it was green "toning" or a green sludge type material like a PVC - if copper is stored in high humidity it can turn "green" and, for a coin collector, THAT green is NOT GOOD - it's a copper salt of some kind that grows and eats and ruins the coin. But that one coin did get a little tinge of blue - but nothing like the nicely toned blue coins that have been displayed in the other theads.

 

Conclusion - I need to "mess with a wider variety of bronze coins or medals to see whether I can get a blue coin. In my bank vault I have some raw proof IHCs that I've owned since the 60s - they have spots and would not be particularly high grade coins so maybe I'll try a couple of those next week. If anyone has any suggestions as to how I can hit the "I feel Blue" jackpot and get a bunch of those Blue coins PLEASE let me know what I should do. Soon as I hit the jackpot, I'll take a photo (or have someone with good photography skills do it) and post the images here.

 

Truth - what's the baking formula? Do I need a blow-torch or is bake at 350 for 30 minutes? - I'll try that over the weekend and post the results.

 

Anyone have the ammonia receipe - I'll try that also.

 

As soon as I get the receipe right and can mass produce them I'll ask one of the grading services to slab them as NO-Grade AT and pass them out at shows as a public service.

 

I think to do a mass slabbing I will need at least 100 examples, so if anyone wants to donate something that he thinks will turn blue, please contact me and I'll give you mailing instructions. I don't think we should do this to anything that has any numismatic value - but if someone wants to donate an 1877 penny or 09-S VDB, I'll dip it in this stuff and post the results - maybe we should try it on some common early date RB or BN Lincolns.

[truthteller]

Your cents have a composition of 95% copper, 5% zinc. The coins I used had a composition of 95% copper, 5% tin and zinc. I only can recommend you use a coin with the same composition to my experiments. As far as the medal is concerned, what was the composition? Was it uncirculated? There are many factors involved. If you wish to duplicate the experiments, use exactly the same items.

 

 

TRUTH

[MAULEMALL]

Your cents have a composition of 95% copper, 5% zinc. The coins I used had a composition of 95% copper, 5% tin and zinc. I only can recommend you use a coin with the same composition to my experiments. As far as the medal is concerned, what was the composition? Was it uncirculated? There are many factors involved. If you wish to duplicate the experiments, use exactly the same items.

 

 

TRUTH

What were the coins that Greg conserved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not please I said conserved not conservative.

[truthteller]

Your cents have a composition of 95% copper, 5% zinc. The coins I used had a composition of 95% copper, 5% tin and zinc. I only can recommend you use a coin with the same composition to my experiments. As far as the medal is concerned, what was the composition? Was it uncirculated? There are many factors involved. If you wish to duplicate the experiments, use exactly the same items.

 

 

TRUTH

What were the coins that Greg conserved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not please I said conserved not conservative.

 

 

1914 lincoln cent. 95% copper, 5% tin and zinc.

 

 

TRUTH

[Connecticoin]

Newmismatist:

 

Yes, MS70 is very slimy stuff and makes coins very slippery. If you are working with valuable coins, do so over a very soft cloth.

 

It is very difficult to get all the stuff off with just water. If I use MS70, I will rinse it in distilled water first and then do a final rinse in acetone. The acetone seems eliminate any remaining MS70 from the coin fairly well.

 

If I am working with proofs (modern ones) I do a final rinse in Isopropyl alcohol to stabilize the surfaces.

[Newmismatist]

A few questions to Truth:

 

What were the dates of the coins you used? The coins I used were from 1961 to 1975 - I didn't think they changed the metallic compostion of Lincolns pennies until the early 80's.

 

I guess we need someone with a current Redbook who can post the metallic composition of Lincolns and the dates that covered when those metal compositions were used.

 

Having had college chemistry and Physics thru my junior year in College, I understand the scientific method - and with experiments, you have to have results that can be replicated to prove the premise and conclusion.

 

So please post the dates and denominations (and probably the conditions as I think use and wear may or could affect the experiment) of the coins that you successfully turned blue - Hopefully we will have some common date coins as I can't afford to try this on 09-S VDBs or 1877 IHCs, unless Bill Gates is willing to fund this.

 

My medal was a bronze Uncirculated Medal with very PL surfaces. It that appears to be a mid to late 19th Medal - I collect medals and have about 75, most of which are bronze and this is consistet with other 19th Centruy Medals that I own. I will bring that medal to the Denver ANA - I have about 20 Napolionic Medals which I know date between 1820 and 1870 by the markings on the edge and they also indicate the composition - I could swab one of the inexpensive ones to see what happens to it.

 

Your post does NOT list the dates nor types of coins you used. THEREFORE I could not possibly duplicate it w/o that infomation. But I will certainly try - My goal is to hit the Blue Lottery jackpot, then duplicate the results and give those Blue babies away to collectors.

 

Update;

 

The Coins look the same this AM - about 10 hours after I swapped them with MS70. A couple of observations:

 

1. The Q-Tips dried out over night - the charcoal black ones are now Grey black, the ones that were less black (the ones used to CONTINUE to get the grime or whatever was on the surfaces and which turned less black with the swabbing) dried with a Green color - which leads me to believe that some copper ions were removed and are on the swabs.

 

2 A second mini experiment that require time: I dipped a 1975 penny so it had NO oxides on the surface - I then dumped it in Hydrogen Peroxide - which has an extra Oxigyn atom (H2-O2) and left it overnight - sure enough the coin had acquired a layer of copper oxide on the coin as it was a puky dark brown color. I swapped this coin with MS70 a few minutes ago and most of the puky dark brown color came off, still no Blue - BUT the Q-Tip turned green, not black so something else must be going on when copper oxide is "removed" by the MS70. I don'tknow what - Maybe TomB - who I know has a great back-ground and much more chemical scientific knowledge than I can tell us what happened here.

 

When Truth posts the list of coin that he used, then I'll try and find the same dates or at least same era and re-do the experiment. One caveat to Truths comments to me. HIS experiment can never be EXACTLY duplicated by him or anyone else. That's because he did NOT do an EXACT chemical analysis of what was on the surface of those coins BEFORE he MS70'd them. So we don't know what was on them - were there only copper Oxides? Was there copper sulfide on the coins, was there copper chloride on the coins, was there other chemical variations of the many copper elements that copper reacts with on the coins he used? Did any have PVC on the surface? what other contaminents were on the surface?

 

To do a controlled scientific experiment, those facts MUST be known or any later experiments will be dealing with a different empirical model. The best we (or anyone) can do is try and use the same types of coins for this on-going experiment.

 

The one thing I can say for sure is that I have NO BLUE toned coins (Yet).

 

If we have a chemistry professor on board maybe we can get this done by a large group of students with a variety of different coins and post the results - or maybe everyone here could do the same - but the problem is w/o a controlled environment we could NOT accurately quantify the results - there would be too many variables.

[chinook]

What were the dates of the coins you used? The coins I used were from 1961 to 1975 - I didn't think they changed the metallic compostion of Lincolns pennies until the early 80's.

 

From coinresource.com------- 1909-1942, 1947-1962 Diameter: 19 millimeters Weight: 3.11 grams Composition: .950 copper, .050 zinc and tin Edge: Plain

 

1943 Diameter: 19 millimeters Weight: 2.70 grams Composition: Zinc-coated steel Edge: Plain

 

1944-1946, 1962-1982 Diameter: 19 millimeters Weight: 3.11 grams Composition: .950 copper, .050 zinc Edge: Plain

 

1982 to date Diameter: 19 millimeters Weight: 2.50 grams Composition: .975 zinc, .025 copper Edge: Plain

[Newmismatist]

Thanks Dave - I've got some earlier UNC Lincolns somewhere and I'll redo the experiment with pre-1960 coins - I also know a local guy who has a bunch of UNC Lincoln rolls that are pre 1960 - BUT I clearly need RB & BN coins and the ones in rolls are usually fairly RD - I guess this is going to be a little harder than I thought.

 

What really surprised me was that that my Dark Chocolate Medal didn't turn BLUE - According to all the gurus who have been discussing this I should have gotten a Bright NEON Blue PL Medal - I want one of those to put in my case at ANA!

[truthteller]

"Your post does NOT list the dates nor types of coins you used. THEREFORE I could not possibly duplicate it w/o that infomation. But I will certainly try - My goal is to hit the Blue Lottery jackpot, then duplicate the results and give those Blue babies away to collectors."

 

 

Well, I stated bronze indian cents with specific alloy. I guess to be VERY specific, I had to pull out the coins. Here's a list 1898, 1904, 1903, 1902, 1901, 1909, 1908, several duplicates.

 

 

 

"So please post the dates and denominations (and probably the conditions as I think use and wear may or could affect the experiment) of the coins that you successfully turned blue "

 

 

Well, I stated the coins were low grade uncirculated indian cents. I have tried these methods with a minimal of circulated bronze coins with poor results. Wear appears to diminish the effect. As far as environmental conditions: I had just eaten lunch, felt pretty good, the sky was blue with a bit of overcast, my kitchen was white, the air was dry, my hands were clean.

 

 

"hit the Blue Lottery jackpot"

 

 

Well, I then recommend Ford Metalic navy blue paint. This would GUARANTEE a blue copper coin. Of course, if you want certain results, then it is not an experiment, since, by definition, you are trying to control the results of a test to attain a specific outcome. Your experimentation may never yield a neon blue cent. However, if you follow the information, you will get various results, no guarantees, no money back.

 

 

TRUTH

[MAULEMALL]

"Your post does NOT list the dates nor types of coins you used. THEREFORE I could not possibly duplicate it w/o that infomation. But I will certainly try - My goal is to hit the Blue Lottery jackpot, then duplicate the results and give those Blue babies away to collectors."

 

 

Well, I stated bronze indian cents with specific alloy. I guess to be VERY specific, I had to pull out the coins. Here's a list 1898, 1904, 1903, 1902, 1901, 1909, 1908, several duplicates.

 

 

 

"So please post the dates and denominations (and probably the conditions as I think use and wear may or could affect the experiment) of the coins that you successfully turned blue "

 

 

Well, I stated the coins were low grade uncirculated indian cents. I have tried these methods with a minimal of circulated bronze coins with poor results. Wear appears to diminish the effect. As far as environmental conditions: I had just eaten lunch, felt pretty good, the sky was blue with a bit of overcast, my kitchen was white, the air was dry, my hands were clean.

 

 

"hit the Blue Lottery jackpot"

 

 

Well, I then recommend Ford Metalic navy blue paint. This would GUARANTEE a blue copper coin. Of course, if you want certain results, then it is not an experiment, since, by definition, you are trying to control the results of a test to attain a specific outcome. Your experimentation may never yield a neon blue cent. However, if you follow the information, you will get various results, no guarantees, no money back.

 

 

TRUTH

You know good and well It's Krylon "Teal Blue"

[MAULEMALL]

"Your post does NOT list the dates nor types of coins you used. THEREFORE I could not possibly duplicate it w/o that infomation. But I will certainly try - My goal is to hit the Blue Lottery jackpot, then duplicate the results and give those Blue babies away to collectors."

 

 

Well, I stated bronze indian cents with specific alloy. I guess to be VERY specific, I had to pull out the coins. Here's a list 1898, 1904, 1903, 1902, 1901, 1909, 1908, several duplicates.

 

 

 

"So please post the dates and denominations (and probably the conditions as I think use and wear may or could affect the experiment) of the coins that you successfully turned blue "

 

 

Well, I stated the coins were low grade uncirculated indian cents. I have tried these methods with a minimal of circulated bronze coins with poor results. Wear appears to diminish the effect. As far as environmental conditions: I had just eaten lunch, felt pretty good, the sky was blue with a bit of overcast, my kitchen was white, the air was dry, my hands were clean.

 

 

"hit the Blue Lottery jackpot"

 

 

Well, I then recommend Ford Metalic navy blue paint. This would GUARANTEE a blue copper coin. Of course, if you want certain results, then it is not an experiment, since, by definition, you are trying to control the results of a test to attain a specific outcome. Your experimentation may never yield a neon blue cent. However, if you follow the information, you will get various results, no guarantees, no money back.

 

 

TRUTH

I think in all honesty Truth that you 2 should duplicate as close as possible.

I think that since MIKEinfl is using you as proof positive that ms70 and Greg are Dooping the entire industry you ( As a perspective expert witness)You Might want to keep notes and complete Documentation ( I suggest you video tape) on all of your experiments and findings.

 

Edited to add him giving directions to your proof positive analysis;

Thursday July 20, 2006 7:19 PM

 

 

 

A very interesting turn of events re:blue toned copper can be seen across the street.. In this post it is stated that MS 70 causes copper to, gasp, turn blue. Furthermore, this blue color can be masked by coating in blue ribbon, and subsequently revealed by acetone...Mike

 

-------------------------

Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and, yes, even modern coinage.

 

[truthteller]

"Your post does NOT list the dates nor types of coins you used. THEREFORE I could not possibly duplicate it w/o that infomation. But I will certainly try - My goal is to hit the Blue Lottery jackpot, then duplicate the results and give those Blue babies away to collectors."

 

 

Well, I stated bronze indian cents with specific alloy. I guess to be VERY specific, I had to pull out the coins. Here's a list 1898, 1904, 1903, 1902, 1901, 1909, 1908, several duplicates.

 

 

 

"So please post the dates and denominations (and probably the conditions as I think use and wear may or could affect the experiment) of the coins that you successfully turned blue "

 

 

Well, I stated the coins were low grade uncirculated indian cents. I have tried these methods with a minimal of circulated bronze coins with poor results. Wear appears to diminish the effect. As far as environmental conditions: I had just eaten lunch, felt pretty good, the sky was blue with a bit of overcast, my kitchen was white, the air was dry, my hands were clean.

 

 

"hit the Blue Lottery jackpot"

 

 

Well, I then recommend Ford Metalic navy blue paint. This would GUARANTEE a blue copper coin. Of course, if you want certain results, then it is not an experiment, since, by definition, you are trying to control the results of a test to attain a specific outcome. Your experimentation may never yield a neon blue cent. However, if you follow the information, you will get various results, no guarantees, no money back.

 

 

TRUTH

I think in all honesty Truth that you 2 should duplicate as close as possible.

I think that since MIKEinfl is useing you as proof possitive that ms70 and Greg are Dooping the entire industry you ( As a perspective expert witness)You Might want to keep notes and complete Documentation ( I suggest you video tape) on all of your experiments and findings.

 

 

Well, here's the rub. All of my experimentation was for my benefit since I do not wish to be screwed when I purchase colored copper coins, in or out of holders. If someone wishes documentation on an experiment with video, lights, certain conditions, etc.for their benefit, then it becomes payment for hire, which is not what I want. The information I devulged was pertinent to specific coins being referenced in numerous recent threads.. Take the information or throw it out or duplicate it exactly. It's free information to educate.

 

 

TRUTH

[MAULEMALL]

"Your post does NOT list the dates nor types of coins you used. THEREFORE I could not possibly duplicate it w/o that infomation. But I will certainly try - My goal is to hit the Blue Lottery jackpot, then duplicate the results and give those Blue babies away to collectors."

 

 

Well, I stated bronze indian cents with specific alloy. I guess to be VERY specific, I had to pull out the coins. Here's a list 1898, 1904, 1903, 1902, 1901, 1909, 1908, several duplicates.

 

 

 

"So please post the dates and denominations (and probably the conditions as I think use and wear may or could affect the experiment) of the coins that you successfully turned blue "

 

 

Well, I stated the coins were low grade uncirculated indian cents. I have tried these methods with a minimal of circulated bronze coins with poor results. Wear appears to diminish the effect. As far as environmental conditions: I had just eaten lunch, felt pretty good, the sky was blue with a bit of overcast, my kitchen was white, the air was dry, my hands were clean.

 

 

"hit the Blue Lottery jackpot"

 

 

Well, I then recommend Ford Metalic navy blue paint. This would GUARANTEE a blue copper coin. Of course, if you want certain results, then it is not an experiment, since, by definition, you are trying to control the results of a test to attain a specific outcome. Your experimentation may never yield a neon blue cent. However, if you follow the information, you will get various results, no guarantees, no money back.

 

 

TRUTH

I think in all honesty Truth that you 2 should duplicate as close as possible.

I think that since MIKEinfl is useing you as proof possitive that ms70 and Greg are Dooping the entire industry you ( As a perspective expert witness)You Might want to keep notes and complete Documentation ( I suggest you video tape) on all of your experiments and findings.

 

 

Well, here's the rub. All of my experimentation was for my benefit since I do not wish to be screwed when I purchase colored copper coins, in or out of holders. If someone wishes documentation on an experiment with video, lights, certain conditions, etc.for their benefit, then it becomes payment for hire, which is not what I want. The information I devulged was pertinent to specific coins being referenced in numerous recent threads.. Take the information or throw it out or duplicate it exactly. It's free information to educate.

 

 

TRUTH

Truth I can see that and although you and I are different ends of the spectrum politically I respect your knowledge on coins and read with considerable interest everything you post on these boards.

[MarkFeld]

If a substance is applied to a coin and/or something else is done to it and the coin appears to change color, I believe the burden of proof should be on those claiming that pre-existing color is simply being revealed, rather than on those who believe the color has been changed/added.

 

Of course if one is not concerned about whether the color is "artificial" or not, there is no need to worry about or try to prove anything.

 

Edited to add: Patrick, the above was not meant to imply in any way that YOU don't care whether a coin has "artificial" color or not. I believe you do care, but that you might have been brain washed by Greg's infectious personality and his help/contributions in areas other than so-called coin "conservation".

[CTcollector]

Truth - Awesome Post.

[Regis44]

If natural toning is removed by dipping to produce a bright shiney coin, is that doctoring?

[truthteller]

If natural toning is removed by dipping to produce a bright shiney coin, is that doctoring?

 

 

In a strict altruistic sense, yes.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[MAULEMALL]

If a substance is applied to a coin and/or something else is done to it and the coin appears to change color, I believe the burden of proof should be on those claiming that pre-existing color is simply being revealed, rather than on those who believe the color has been changed/added.

 

Of course if one is not concerned about whether the color is "artificial" or not, there is no need to worry about or try to prove anything.

 

Edited to add: Patrick, the above was not meant to imply in any way that YOU don't care whether a coin has "artificial" color or not. I believe you do care, but that you might have been brain washed by Greg's infectious personality and his help/contributions in areas other than so-called coin "conservation".

I'm sorry Mark but the only Brain washing done to me was by the Marine Corps.

And I readily accepted that as I knew it might some day save my life.

 

As no one here has proved anything as to MS70's ability to tone I have no reason to accept "the slings and arrows" so contemptuously hurled in Greg's direction.

And believe when I say if it were directed at you,I would just as vehemently defend you.

[MikeInFL]

I think that since MIKEinfl is using you as proof positive that ms70 and Greg are Dooping the entire industry you ( As a perspective expert witness)You Might want to keep notes and complete Documentation ( I suggest you video tape) on all of your experiments and findings.

 

Edited to add him giving directions to your proof positive analysis;

Thursday July 20, 2006 7:19 PM

 

 

 

A very interesting turn of events re:blue toned copper can be seen across the street.. In this post it is stated that MS 70 causes copper to, gasp, turn blue. Furthermore, this blue color can be masked by coating in blue ribbon, and subsequently revealed by acetone...Mike

 

-------------------------

Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and, yes, even modern coinage.

 

Please post where "MIKEinfl is using you as proof positive that ms70 and Greg are Dooping the entire industry you ( As a perspective expert witness)You Might want to keep notes and complete Documentation ( I suggest you video tape) on all of your experiments and findings." Because my post that you copied makes no such inference, and I do not appreciate you misrepresenting my intent.

 

Furthermore, I would request that you stop insinuating legal action is taking or will take place. Not only do you have no bearing on wether or not any legal action will take place, any such legal action would be without merit in my opinion. I have libeled nobody, and I have said nothing untrue, and I challenge you to show otherwise.

 

Thank you very much...Mike

[MAULEMALL]

Furthermore, I would request that you stop insinuating legal action is taking or will take place. Not only do you have no bearing on wether or not any legal action will take place, any such legal action would be without merit in my opinion. I have libeled nobody, and I have said nothing untrue, and I challenge you to show otherwise.

 

 

I see you have learned to back peddle too..

Troll

 

 

 

I have publicly stated that I feel it would be in Greg's best interests to litigate.

 

Now maybe you have spoken to council yourself and found out that you are not so bright.

 

When will you be posting an unedited post from across the street.Troll

[Dan Rydell-migration]

Furthermore, I would request that you stop insinuating legal action is taking or will take place. Not only do you have no bearing on wether or not any legal action will take place, any such legal action would be without merit in my opinion. I have libeled nobody, and I have said nothing untrue, and I challenge you to show otherwise.

 

 

I see you have learned to back peddle too..

Troll

 

 

 

I have publicly stated that I feel it would be in Greg's best interests to litigate.

 

Now maybe you have spoken to council yourself and found out that you are not so bright.

 

 

 

 

When will you be posting an unedited post from across the street.Troll

 

You're not attracted to me, are you?

[MikeInFL]

Furthermore, I would request that you stop insinuating legal action is taking or will take place. Not only do you have no bearing on wether or not any legal action will take place, any such legal action would be without merit in my opinion. I have libeled nobody, and I have said nothing untrue, and I challenge you to show otherwise.

 

 

I see you have learned to back peddle too..

Troll

 

 

 

I have publicly stated that I feel it would be in Greg's best interests to litigate.

 

Now maybe you have spoken to council yourself and found out that you are not so bright.

 

When will you be posting an unedited post from across the street.Troll

 

Where have I backpeddled? My message has been clear and consistent.

 

Please tell me which unedited post you would like to see, and if I have it I will post it or recollect it to the best of my ability.

 

I have nothing to hide. I have said nothing untrue. I have libeled nobody. Your failure to meet my challenge says a lot about the validity of your position.

 

Until you respond to my questions or provide proof of an incorrect or libelous statement, I have nothing more to say to you...Mike