MS70 cleaner vs. blue ribbon vs Jeweluster on copper.

[truthteller]

I've read many posts on both forums about copper and color. Since all the aforementioned chemicals are widely used in the industry, here's some information:

 

MS70- this chemical has been around for about 20 years and is used primarily to remove grime from any type of coinage. It will impart a violet/purple/blue color to some bronze coinage after a rinse, with a resulting "sheen" affect. It will impart a pink tone to copper/nickel coinage. It will impart a light brown on silver coins that have been dipped. This refers uncirculated coinage

 

Blue Ribbon- this chemical has been around for about 40 years and is considered a grime remover/conservation oil. Most, if not all, copper dealers recommend this solution for higher end uncirculated copper/bronze coinage for conservation. The chemical forms an oily barrier to air/environment. It can be removed with acetone. The solution tends to mute the luster of a coin. Many "chocolate" or glossy uncirculated copper coins have this on their surfaces.

 

Jeweluster- this chemical has been around forever. It is a weak acid that removes the outer layer of copper or silver from uncirculated coinage. However, for copper coinage, the stripping of the outer oxidized layer allows the copper to immediatedly begin a reaction to the environment, causing a splotchy, unnatural after effect. Often, a mixed solution of water/jeweluster is used on copper, while silver has full strength.

 

Heat- the effect of heat on copper/silver is very uncontrolled. However, heat will impart violet/purples/blues on copper/bronze/coppernickel. Heat will impart gold colors on silver. Heat will also oxidize a layer of surface metal, sometimes forming a white hard silver oxide layer on silver and a brown layer on copper. If the heat is applied to high, the result is often irreversible with undesireable consequences.

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[gmarguli]

MS70- this chemical has been around for about 20 years and is used primarily to remove grime from any type of coinage. It will impart a violet/purple/blue color to some bronze coinage after a rinse, with a resulting "sheen" affect. It will impart a pink tone to copper/nickel coinage. It will impart a light brown on silver coins that have been dipped. This refers uncirculated coinage

 

It will turn billion (low grade silver) coinage a dark brown to black which is stained on the surface and will not come off.

 

 

Blue Ribbon- this chemical has been around for about 40 years and is considered a grime remover/conservation oil. Most, if not all, copper dealers recommend this solution for higher end uncirculated copper/bronze coinage for conservation. The chemical forms an oily barrier to air/environment. It can be removed with acetone. The solution tends to mute the luster of a coin. Many "chocolate" or glossy uncirculated copper coins have this on their surfaces.

 

There are at least two versions of this. As I have heard it, the old one contained a chemical that causes cancer. However, it really works well for copper coinage - especially lightly circulated. You cannot buy this version anymore, but bottles still exist. They actually sell for quite a bit of money. Also, I know at least two dealers who had someone mix up batches of the original formula for them.

 

The newer version works well, but not nearly as well. However, the upside is that you don't get cancer. It's a trade off.

[truthteller]

Uh oh, I guess I got cancer.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[JamminJ]

Uh oh, I guess I got cancer.

 

TRUTH

 

Your coins thank you.

[pendragon1998]

Uh oh, I guess I got cancer.

 

TRUTH

 

Just think about it as AT for your skin.

[gmarguli]

Uh oh, I guess I got cancer.

 

TRUTH

 

So you admit doctoring coins with Blue Ribbon. I dipped thousands of coins in Jeweluster before reading the bottle that says not to get in contact with skin and it causes cancer. Other than coughing up blood every other day, I'm in perfect health.

 

Look on the bright side, I bet you had a lot of nice looking copper.

[MAULEMALL]

Uh oh, I guess I got cancer.

 

TRUTH

 

So you admit doctoring coins with Blue Ribbon. I dipped thousands of coins in Jeweluster before reading the bottle that says not to get in contact with skin and it causes cancer. Other than coughing up blood every other day, I'm in perfect health.

 

Look on the bright side, I bet you had a lot of nice looking copper.

[James_OldeTowne]

((( There are at least two versions of this. As I have heard it, the old one contained a chemical that causes cancer. However, it really works well for copper coinage - especially lightly circulated. You cannot buy this version anymore, but bottles still exist. They actually sell for quite a bit of money. Also, I know at least two dealers who had someone mix up batches of the original formula for them.

 

The newer version works well, but not nearly as well. However, the upside is that you don't get cancer. It's a trade off. )))

 

Greg, you might be thinking of something called "Coin Kare", or something like that, which was much like Blue Ribbon, only it was toxic as you state. I've actually witnessed a copper-doctor use this potent stuff in Chicago once. The purpose of it is to take a mildly porous copper coin, apply the "Kare", and voila, produce a coin sans-corrosion. It's supposed to fill in the micro-pores and produce better-looking surfaces.

 

Now, when I saw this particular coin-doctor use it, the coin was a slightly porous Liberty Cap large-cent, and in my personal opinion, after application of the Kare, the coin looked MUCH WORSE, because it had a filthy, oily, greasy grimy coating on it that just did not look right to me. However, he assured me that there are literally thousands of coppers out there doctored with Kare.

 

I'm just relating what I personally witnessed and was told.

 

James

[TomB]

I believe the old Blue Ribbon had 1,1,1 trichloroethane in it, which is a compound that damages the ozone layer of the upper atmosphere, can be absorbed through the skin and has caused liver and kidney damage in experimental animals. This version of Blue Ribbon has been removed from the market, but I have heard complaints from folks who state that the removal of 1,1,1 trichloroethane has resulted in an inferior product.

 

Jeweluster is a solution of dilute acid to solubilize oxidized metal and a thiourea salt to complex the disolved metals.

 

As has been mentioned in many threads lately, imparting a blue color on copper is about the easiest thing one can do, aside from making copper bright pink. However, most blues and violets that can be intentionally placed onto the surface of copper not only might look somewhat odd, but they won't necessarily have a patina. There is a difference. False blues on silver are much more easily spotted.

[gmarguli]

I believe the old Blue Ribbon had 1,1,1 trichloroethane in it

 

I looked at my 15 year old bottle of it and that is exactly what is lists.

[ldhair]

Just found my old bottle. Glad I read this thread.

 

Years ago we used Blue Ribbon on detector finds.

It did a great job of cleaning up a copper cent.

Put a little on your finger and coat the coin.

Wait a while and wipe it off. If we only knew.

 

I just pulled out my old album of detector finds.

Every copper cent treated in this way are almost black.

I haven't looked at these in probably 15 years but I seem to recall some still had a bit of brown. They have the same look as some that I used the reverse electrolysis deal to lift the garbage from the coin.

 

The good news is, they are still worth a cent.

[Newmismatist]

I believe the old Blue Ribbon had 1,1,1 trichloroethane in it

 

I looked at my 15 year old bottle of it and that is exactly what is lists.

 

Hmm mine too - but mine's about 25 yrs old - about half left - don't use it often - last use was to try and clean some gunked up CWTs.

 

Cleaning copper coins has more downside than upside - so if you're gonna experiment, do it with coins that have little value.