Why would you risk your $

[MarkFeld]

 

 

As posted on the "other" board :

 

Earlier today, I posted the message below, in response to a board member who was checking out an uncertified coin on Ebay that would have cost in excess of $400. There are apparently tons of people on this board and elsewhere, who do risk their money (sometimes lots of it!) on uncertified coins and I'm curious as to why. Any responses are appreciated.

 

 

 

 

<< This is meant for you and anyone else who contemplates buying expensive, non certified coins (in effect, sight unseen) on Ebay or elsewhere. Why, on earth, would you take a risk like that? There are plenty of certified coins available, in many cases, at levels as attractive as the uncertified ones.

 

In most cases, there is probably a very good reason that these uncertified coins have not been holdered by a major grading service. Among them - problems such as cleaning, altering or questionable toning. Or, perhaps the sellers just want to try to offer the coins at grades higher than the grading services would certify them at.

 

You are going against the odds and asking for trouble and a bad deal, I presume, due to being tempted by what might appear to be a good deal.

 

I hope you and others will not take offense at my comments. Over a period of many years, I have seen buyers of uncertified coins get more terrible deals than I would like to remember. >>

 

[EVillageProwler]

I'll bite. (I have no life anyway!)

 

I would ``risk'' buying sight-unseen a raw coin if I had actually seen an image of the coin. From that image, if I determine the coin to be a rare variety, then I'd bid.

 

I would also ``risk'' my money if I felt good about the seller and his return policy, and if I needed the coin badly enough.

 

Otherwise, I have a pretty strict policy against buying sight-unseen -- raw or slabbed!

 

EVP

 

[Gunsmoke]

Er, because I was stupid? Well, just a little. I bought some raw coins on Ebay that were advertised as BU. Well, guess what - they were AU. The good news is I only paid AU money for them, but still feel like I was ripped off.

 

Lesson learned. I now only buy NGC or PCGS coins.

 

I am hesistant about even doing that with all the fraud on Ebay these days.

[paigow_johnny]

I've had pretty good luck on Yahoo auctions. I haven't bought any big ticket raw stuff...but the things I have won...well in my opinion I got what was advertised.

 

My rules....

1) Has to be clear obverse/reverse pictures

2.) Has to have a sensible return policy

3.) My max bid will generally be notably less than market/Trends...and if I'm looking at uncs, I always assume MS 60 for any ungraded, no matter how the seller grades.

4.) My max bid, including all postage/handling/insurance has to be notably less than I can buy it from a local dealer.

5.) MUST absolutely have a sensible return policy

6.) I generally focus on auctions where the guy specializes in what I like, has a lot of positive feedback, and now that I've done it a few times...folks I've dealt with successfully before.

 

A good example of a pass...someone was offering a 90-CC Morgan, a coin I really want, in MS-61 at a decent opening price. Pictures were okay, but REAL shiny...could have been the lighting, but I've become paranoid about cleaned coins after some recent mail order issues. Asked about return policy...nope...no bid. Live to fight another day.

[Guest]

Mark,

Personally, I would not take a chance buying uncertified coins on the internet, but I do know people who do so regularly. They even take the sellers grading as gospel, saying "I'm putting together a set of Washington's in MS-65 at a great price".

People just seem to be driven by what they percieve to be bargains, and just throw caution to the wind in their pursuit of a deal.

It might also have to do with the "power of the printed word", as in they couldn't say it's a MS-65 on E-bay if it wasn't true. Could they? Seeing something stated in print, or on the internet, seems to legitimize the claims of sellers to a greater extent then hearing the same claim in person.

In my opinion, people need to make better use of the wealth of information available (such as this forum), before plunking down the $$$.

Thanks,

John

[gmarguli]

If I trusted the seller and they had a return privilege. That's the only way.

 

However, there is nothing wrong with buying an expensive coin raw when sight seen. That should be made clear.

[Tradedollarnut]

YES, THERE IS! If you don't have sufficient experience.

 

I recently purchased an 1877 trade dollar that was all there - no marks, good strike, nice toning scheme. It was raw, but the seller was a collector and it looked good to me. I paid between MS64 and MS65 money for the coin, sight seen and with a return priviledge that I passed on.

 

Submitted to PCGS and NGC and returned bodybagged for artificial toning. I had insufficient experience with AT to be buying that coin raw. And I've seen hundreds and hundreds of trade dollars - raw and slabbed.

[EVillageProwler]

TDN,

 

A/T doesn't necessarily mean the coin is bad. A/T is just an opinion. If the surfaces are still good, then I think the coin is salvagable.

 

How is the coin aside from the color? BTW, I want to see the coin. Can you get it to Baltimore?

 

EVP

 

[gmarguli]

I've always felt that if you don't have the ability to purchase a coin raw then you shouldn't be purchasing one slabbed.

 

Learn before you buy.

[Tradedollarnut]

Don't get me wrong - I still like the coin. I'm keeping it as an example of a well struck 1877, which is quite rare. And it is still a valuable coin - but not worth what I paid and not very liquid. And since AT even fools the experts some of the time, I'm not so embarrassed as to not relate the experience for the education of others.

 

EVP - I'll bring it to FUN.

[EVillageProwler]

EVP - I'll bring it to FUN

 

You WILL sent the coin to Baltimore!

 

 

EVP

 

[gmarguli]

If the coin is really nice, then dip it or send it to NCS and get the AT off it.

[keithdagen]

Exactly, unless you paid a premium for that toning, dipping it should get it back up to a price level closer to your investment.

[MarkFeld]

If the coin really is AT, then dipping it will probably reveal what is not now apparent under the color and that might not be a good thing.. also, depending on what has been done to the coin, it might not even dip out.

[Tradedollarnut]

The AT is not covering hairlines or marks, but more likely the coin was stripped of ugly toning, which cost it all its luster and then retoned. It has luster, but not booming luster that you would expect from an original coin. This is the only clue that my untrained eye had prior to submission - it didn't have the luster that other high grade coins have. If the coin was dipped to remove the toning, the result would be to completely strip the remaining luster. I think it's attractive the way it is, so I'll just keep it raw.

[Hoot]

TDN - It's nice that you like the coin well enough to keep it as it is. With such a coin (no doubt quite valuable), I'd not do the dipping myself, even though I may have a fair bit of experience with it. Sending it to NCS would caution the restoration of the coin against potential pitfalls of "what's beneath the toning" or problematic removal of toning, as they will work closely with a submitter to avoid bad outcomes in their processes. They are also extremely knowledgable and friendly. They would work with you depending on what you felt was a minimum grade.

 

I know this info is a bit superfluous now, but it may be useful to you (or others) in the future.

 

Hoot