My eBay terms and conditions (your thoughts?)

[pendragon1998]

I don't currently sell any of my coins on eBay, but I'm thinking about doing it at some time in the future. I sat down today and put together some terms and conditions that I think are fair and will protect both me and the buyer. I'd like to hear opinions on them - (i.e. do they seem fair? do they take into account everything I should mention? etc). This is my first time putting something like this together, so if I get something wrong, please don't assume I'm trying to rip anyone off - I'll consider your corrections.

 

Please ignore the html code, as I didn't take the time to remove it.

 

Thanks!

 

 

<b>TERMS AND CONDITIONS:</b>

Please take the time to review the following terms and conditions. When you post a bid on this auction, you are agreeing that if you win, you will be subject to these terms and conditions. Bids constitute a binding contract between us.

 

 

<b>WINNING BIDDER:</b>

 

If you win the auction, congratulations! I will contact you with a total [winning bid + S&H + insurance (see below)] within three (3) business days of the auction ending. You may wait for my email or go ahead and pay me the total via PayPal immediately.

 

Please use the eBay checkout to pay within five (5) business days of the auction end date, or I will consider the item unclaimed and forfeited. The item will then be put back up for bid. You item will not ship until your payment in full is received.

 

I will notify you that I have received payment and will let you know by email when your item ships. I usually ship items no later than 2-3 business days of receiving payment (often sooner).

 

 

<b>PAYMENT METHODS:</b>

I accept PayPal only. Please use the eBay checkout.

 

 

<b>SHIPPING AND HANDLING:</b>

 

I charge $4.00 for shipping and handling.

 

I ship by first class mail with the USPS. The coin(s) you win will be placed in holders (if not already in holders), wrapped in bubble wrap, and placed in a padded mailer for shipping.

 

 

<b>INSURANCE:</b>

 

I charge $1.30 for insurance. Insurance is optional for winning bids under $30.00. Winning bids over $30.00 are required to purchase insurance.

 

 

<b>RETURNS:</b>

I believe in offering a fair return policy, because that is what I want from a seller when I am the buyer.

 

If the item you receive does not match the written description offered in the auction, you must contact me via email within ten (10) business days of the payment date. Images provided in auctions are provided as a curtesy and are deemed to be reliable, but should never be the sole basis of your purchase.

 

If you do not contact me within the ten day timeframe, the return policy no longer applies. I will promptly reply to your email, approving the return if it meets the conditions outlined here. Returns must be postmarked by three (3) business days after my return email.

 

<i>Situations when the return does not apply:</i>

<ol>

<li>You are not happy with an aspect of the item not explicitly defined in the text of the auction description.

<li>You changed your mind after noting a defect that was disclosed in the text of the description.

<li>More than 7 calendar days have elapsed since the payment date.

<li>The item or its holder has been altered and/or damaged or the item was otherwise removed from its original (shipping) holder.

<li>The item is not returned in a timely manner (i.e. postmarked within the three (3) business days of my return authorization email).

</ul>

 

Refunds will consist of the amount of the winning bid, and will be returned to you via PayPal within three (3) business days of my receipt of your returned item. No shipping, handling, or insurance charges will be refunded.

 

The buyer is responsible for properly packaging the item(s) to be returned and for paying return shipping and adequate insurance for the returned item. Return shipping must be via the same method used during shipping to the buyer (e.g. if your package was mailed to you by USPS priority mail with $50 of insurance, your return package must be sent back to me by priority mail with the same amount of insurance.)

 

Refunds are not offered if the item was damaged or lost during shipping. If you opted out of buying insurance, you took that risk. If you bought insurance, you must follow the procedure offered by the USPS for insurance claims. I will assist with any insurance claims as much as I can.

[spiny]

I wouldn't buy from you. Too many, and conflicting, terms and conditions. Too much for shipping if you're selling cheap items.

[XpipedreamR]

I accept PayPal only.

 

 

 

This is where I usually stop reading

 

 

 

But just for fun I'll continue...

 

 

 

 

Situations when the return does not apply:

 

You are not happy with an aspect of the item not explicitly defined in the text of the auction description.

 

 

 

 

 

What the heck is this supposed to mean

 

 

 

Either take returns or don't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, your terms are long and annoying. I would mentally file you under "problem seller" and move on. Sorry.

[Regis44]

Your terms are clear and that is good.

- I agree that the shipping is high unless your coins are all $40 and up. But, I've paid that much before on a $15-20 coin because the price + shipping met my goal for that coin.

 

- I will NOT buy unless I can pay via paypal (although I've made a few mistakes and had to go get money order..... ..wasting my time or write check and waiting an extra week or so to see the coin and then maybe have to return it and wait a week or 2 to get a check back).

 

"No PayPal" and I simply skip the coin.

 

Regis

[jtryka]

You've got to keep it simple, and this is just way over the top (are you a lawyer?). In my auctions (as few as there are) I keep everything simple, and treat buyers the way I'd want to be treated.

 

Payments: I accept checks, cash and money orders.

Payments are due in 7 days of the auction close (unless we agree to other terms in advance-but I generally don't mention this part as it seems like common sense to me).

Shipping is based on the item. If it's a single coin going first class, generally $2 is enough to cover postage and bubble wrap. A roll of silver eagles might be $6 or $7 due to the weight.

Insurance: generally optional on cheap items for $1.35, if I know the coin is more expensive, I will just add the insurance to the total S&H and make it mandatory.

Returns: 7-days, no questions asked. If you don't like it return it and I'll return the purchase price and your S&H (I don't know how anyone could get mad about that).

 

That's it. In my actual actions it's even shorter since I don't include my parenthetical comments. It's your job as a seller to convince buyers to buy from you. Many times that has to do with what you are selling, but it's also a lot about how easy you are to deal with. You show them in your terms that you are a stand-up seller that makes things easy for the buyer, and people will buy from you. And if you are concerned that my return policy is too generous, I've had 2 returns total since 1999.

[James_OldeTowne]

I skip any auction item that states "PayPal Only". I'm simply will never have a paypal account ever again.

 

James

[gmarguli]

If I really wanted the item, I'd bid, but it isn't a thrilling list of conditions.

 

I'd get rid of the text under Terms & Conditions. No need to write all that.

 

If you only take PayPal, then 3 days to contact the buyer is a lot. Actually, no need to contact the buyer at all. eBay will send an invoice for you where you can list certain info. The buyer will figure out how to pay. I used to send out invoices after the auction, but never noticed it doing any good. I also used to answer payment-type questions right away. Now, if it is a standard payment question, I'll wait 2-3 days to answer it. Usually the buyer figures it out and pays before I answer. Saves me a lot of time.

 

I'm not sure why you want to exclude non-PayPal buyers. A couple of my best buyers pay with checks - and when I say best buyers I mean they bid strong - one bid super strong. Sure, it can be a hassle to wait for the check, but it also saves you on PayPal fees and not everyone is willing to use PayPal.

 

There is no need to tell them to use the eBay Checkout as if they are paying with PayPal it is automatic. Also no need to tell them when you've shipped. They'll get the package in 2-3 days and you can always click on Package Shipped link in the auction.

 

$4 for S&H is a little high especially when you don't include insurance. I charge $4 and that covers insurance and any number of coins a person buys.

 

Making me buy insurance for an item over $30 is cheap. I'd rather not spend the $1.30 on a $30 item. When I buy insurance it is when I don't know a seller or don't want to risk the loss. I'll risk a $30 loss to save $1.30. Make insurance required at $100 if you like. If I have to pay $1.30 for insurance on a $30 item, expect me to lower my bid by $1.30 to cover this or not bid or buy from another seller. You'll lose in the end.

 

No need to tell me how you wrap the item. I don't care. I just want it to arrive safely.

 

Your return policy is a turn off. Too many exclusions and days to remember. Make it simple for them: If you feel the item received was not accurately represented in my auction, you may return the item for a full refund less S&H. All I ask is that you email me with 3 days of receiving the item to let me know you are returning it and mail it back to me with 5 days of receiving. Please package any returns carefully.

 

If you give good images and honest descriptions, you'll get very few returns. I'd estimate that I get 1 return for every 500 items sold.

 

Images provided in auctions are provided as a curtesy and are deemed to be reliable, but should never be the sole basis of your purchase.

 

This is an awful statement. First off, I'm sure 'curtesy' is not the word you wanted to use. Secondly, it sounds like you're telling me the images are not accurate. "I try to make the images accurate, but when the coin shows up and there is that giant scratch on it that you couldn't see in the picture, you're SOL and no returns on it. SUCKER!!!" And I'm sure this is not what you are really trying to convey to the bidders.

[MAULEMALL]

I think Greg hit the nail on the head.

The KISS rule will make you a ton more sales and give you a ton less head aches.

[TomB]

I am responding before reading what anyone else has written, but I will tell you that I would likely avoid your auctions if they ran as listed. Here are my specific issues with what you have written-

 

1) A return policy should not be vague and yours is not only vague, but appears arbitrary. Look at this partial quote from your policy-

does not match the written description offered in the auction

In my opinion, and the opinion of many others, this is simply a way of claiming a return policy but not allowing one. It also looks as though you expect returns on your merchandise and are laying the groundwork to reject them. This is an enormous red flag for me.

 

2) Contact within ten business days of the payment date is too short. If someone pays you on a Thursday night and you ship on Monday, which is your two to three day window allowing for Sunday, then they might not receive it until after your return window is closed. Therefore, this is another way to avoid having returns shipped back to you and is another red flag.

 

3) Again, your return policy looks very shady witht this statement-

if it meets the conditions outlined here

So, if you don't think it should be returned, regardless of what the buyer thinks, then the buyer is toast; another red flag.

 

4) Another return policy red flag-

Situations when the return does not apply

This just invites the potential for abuse and for the appearance of abuse. I would never buy from a seller with all these restrictions on a return.

 

5) You will get a severe argument on this statement-

If you opted out of buying insurance, you took that risk.

Many folks will argue that it is the seller's responsibility to deliver merchandise and that it is the seller's loss if no insurance is purchased. I do not know where the law stands on this, but you may be in trouble here.

 

6) You state that insurance is $1.30, is this the case no matter what the item sells for? If not, you should change this wording because that is how it is currently worded.

 

7) I simply don't like the overall tone of your policies. I don't think you are trying to harm anyone, but ebay is largely anonymous and your wording appears to me to be overly stuffy and geared to silence returns.

 

8) This might be picky, but try to spell correctly in your auctions; to me this is a major turnoff.

 

Here's a suggestion, simply tell folks the following-

Payment by PayPal only and required within five days of auction close. Shipping is $4 plus exact insurance, which is required. Buyer may return item for any reason, in original holder and undamaged, up to fourteen (14) days after shipment.

That's a lot shorter and I would bid in an auction with that policy, which happens to be essentially my policy.

[Regis44]

Now that I've read the other reviews and re-read the original, I'm revising my previous comments.

 

I was wrong, it is much tooo wordy and ambiguous.

 

And, as a matter of fact, I'm changing my own policy to Tom's suggestion except $2 shipping.

 

Regis

[pendragon1998]

Okay, I just got finished writing a comprehensive reply to all of these comments, more or less agreeing with most of it. I just lost the stupid post, however, because of a computer glitch, so I'll give you the good parts version:

 

I agree that it was perhaps a little too wordy for most people. I'm not out to screw anyone, just trying to be completely clear on my policies. I'm not a lawyer. I can spell, just wrote the thing fast . I'm just a collector, not a dealer, and I've never sold on eBay.

 

I don't especially care if you don't like PayPal - I think it's more secure than cash, check, or cashier's checks (which are frequently associated with fraud in the online community these days. I will, however, add personal checks to the listing, though I rarely if ever would use them myself. If the person paid with a check, how long should I hold the item before mailing it? How should I return their money if they so desire it?

 

I reviewed 40 auctions closing at totals between $15-$25, and the average s&h was $3.62. I think that $3.50 is fair enough, considering I don't plan to sell frequently. I'll add delivery confirmation to my S&H and round it to $4.00.

 

Where should I show that I will only ship to US addresses?

 

How about my new terms?

 

Terms:

 

I accept PayPal and personal checks. Payment (or notice of intent to pay by check) must be received within five (5) business days. Items paid for by personal check will be held until the check clears.

 

Shipping and handling charge is $4.00 and includes delivery confirmation. If you win additonal auctions from me closing within 24 hours of each other, you may combine shipping. S&H for each additional auction is only $1.00.

 

Buyer may return item(s) if still in their original holder and condition up to fourteen (14) days from payment date. If auction contained multiple items, you must return all or none. Please contact me to let me know of your intent to return the items, and ship them within three (3) business days of my reply. In the case of a return, I will refund to the buyer the amount of their bid.

 

(USPS insurance rates will be included below terms)

[TomB]

I think that your revised terms are much more bidder-friendly and I would have no problems bidding in an auction with those terms.

 

There is an option when you are listing that allows you to check where you will ship your item to, this is in the ebay template and it will allow you to ship only to the US. I've never held shipment of a coin in fear that a check would be no good, so I can't help you with that.

[James_OldeTowne]

((( I don't especially care if you don't like PayPal - I think it's more secure than cash, check, or cashier's checks )))

 

I may very well be wrong about this, but it seems to me like PayPal is a far bigger target for fraud these days than paper payments. Anybody have any kind of statistics for this? In something like six years of eBay, I've had exactly zero incidents or problems with taking paper payments, and been ripped twice by PayPal - both times to the tune of hundreds of dollars - which is why I positively refuse to ever consider it again. But I don't know statistically which is really safer.

 

((( If the person paid with a check, how long should I hold the item before mailing it? )))

 

I have a three-tiered policy that I generally stick by.

 

< $10, I mail the item before I even receive payment.

 

< $100, I mail the item immediately upon receipt of the check

 

>$100, I wait three days. That's all you need - just three days. I know that a lot of people claim it takes 10 days to two weeks, yada yada, but the reality is the bank has the funds in three days (at least mine does). If it's a really big check - say $1000, then I ask my bank to call and verify funds, but I don't sell items of that caliber on eBay.

 

((( How should I return their money if they so desire it? )))

 

I send a company check.

 

By the way, your new terms are WAY better than the original.

 

James

[pendragon1998]

Here's my issue with checks: if some guy off the street you never met asked you for your checking account number, routing #, name, address, driver's license #, and home and work numbers, would you give it to him? That's exactly what you're including on a check. Stolen checks account for the vast majority of ID theft. If you're not using an acetone-proof ink or check, all they have to do is put a bit of cellophane tape over your sig, then soak the check in acetone - presto: blank, signed check.

 

I've had two checks from other sources bounce on me - both times, the payment went into my account, then about 4-8 days later, the funds were removed and notice that the checks were bad was given to me. By that point, I would have shipped the coins. I may change my policy and hold the coins for 10 days or so before shipping.

 

There's also been a big fraud problem with fake cashier's checks. The scammer sends you an official-looking check, which you deposit. The money goes into your account. Three-five weeks later, the bank sends you notice that the check was bad and you owe the amount of money the check was for.

 

Cash is fairly safe for the seller (unless it's stolen), but a big risk for the buyer, obviously.

 

How should I refund money paid by check if I don't have a company check? I'm just a regular guy, not a dealer, remember

[TomB]

I'm just a regular guy, too. If someone returns a coin to you, which is truly rare if you provide honest images and commentary, then simply pay them via a bank or postal money order.

[MAULEMALL]

Tom mentioned something I ALWAYS encouraged..Postal M/O's..

 

I used a PO box and as soon as the M/O came in I would walk to the window and cash it.

 

The Post office loves doing that stuff.

[gmarguli]

I will, however, add personal checks to the listing, though I rarely if ever would use them myself. If the person paid with a check, how long should I hold the item before mailing it? How should I return their money if they so desire it?

 

Make it Personal Checks / Money Orders. This way you avoid people asking if you accept money orders. Of the people who mail you payment, expect about 1/3 postal money orders, 1/3 other money orders, and 1/3 personal checks.

 

As to how long to hold, it's really up to you. Checks usually clear in 3 business days. I usually ship items out when I receive the check. I've waited for 10 days on one check and that was only because it was highly unusual (printed on dot matrix printer, said it had a watermark on the reverse, but it didn't, the printing was off center, and the name on the check did not match that of the buyer). It cleared. I've been buying and selling for close to 20 years and been on eBay for over 8 years. In all that time I can recall 2 people bouncing checks to me. One made good and said it was an honest mistake and I believe him. The other was a dealer and I took care of it. That's a pretty good track record.

[James_OldeTowne]

((( Here's my issue with checks: if some guy off the street you never met asked you for your checking account number, routing #, name, address, driver's license #, and home and work numbers, would you give it to him? That's exactly what you're including on a check. )))

 

If I am the seller, then the "guy off the street" is the high bidder, and if he has agreed to pay by check (according to my eBay payment terms), then indeed, he IS agreeing to give me all the information you spelled out!

 

If you do anticipate problems with accepting checks, then by all means, use a 10 day holding period. That's what most people are used to anyway. All I'm saying is that I personally have tended to trust my bidders, and with surely at least 2000 items sold on eBay over the past 5+ years, and the vast majority being paid by personal check, I have had absolutely ZERO problems. Never a bounced check, or rescinded funds, or any funny business. Maybe I've been lucky!

 

(Of course it'll be my luck that the very next transaction I do will be a problem .)

 

I have also never been scammed by a fake cashier's check.

 

I just think that on-line fraud is surely the bigger problem today - maybe not the case five or ten years ago. But I seldom see check fraud, or cashier-check fraud in the headlines. It's always on-line fraud that I see!

 

((( How should I refund money paid by check if I don't have a company check? I'm just a regular guy, not a dealer, remember )))

 

Before I had a company, I just sent back a personal check for refunds. By the way, I don't think I've had more than ten or so returns in all those 2000 transactions.

 

Given the changes you made to your return policy, and the obvious caution and care you have in your approach, I really think you're going to be OK. I sincerely wish you the best!!

 

James

[cpm9ball]

James, I was waiting to see if someone mentioned cashier's checks. They are much safer than personal checks and cost you nothing (at least they don't at my bank). I've become very leery of sending personal checks anywhere because the routing number and your individual account are prominently displayed at the bottom.

 

The biggest drawback to accepting a personal check and shipping a product before the check clears is the possibility that the check will be returned for insufficient funds. Scam artists use this ploy every day, everywhere. First, they will write a few small checks to you that will clear. Then they will write a few larger checks and disappear before they are eventually returned to you stamped "NSF". If you ask your local States Attorney, you will learn that (small-scale) check fraud is quite common and very hard to prosecute because you can't prove intent unless it is blatant and continual.

 

Chris

[jtryka]

I like your new terms much better! I agree with the folks who mention accepting money orders (those are often better than checks if you can cash them at the PO for Postal Money Orders). As for check policy, my general rule is to hold for 7 business days (approximately 10 calendar days) after getting burned on a check that bounced after I shipped a few years ago that was held only 5 days (that's when I changed my policy). I apply the holding period to ALL paper payments, personal checks, money orders and cashier's checks as the number of fake "official" type checks have increased. That hold period is the maximum, and often based on my judgement I will reduce that period. For example, if it's a $10 item and the buyer has 500+ feedback with no negatives, then it's a safer bet that the check is good (though not totally safe with hijacked accounts). Or, if there is a situation where I can convert the cash faster I will reduce the hold period, such as when I can cash a money order at the post office, or a personal check at a local bank branch where the check is drawn. Also, for larger items where the person pays with a cashiers or certified check, I often call the bank that issued the check to verify it. Most of the time, even on small local banks, you can look up their contact info on the internet and then call the bank. Most of the time the bank will tell you if the check is valid (it would be a major fraud to set up a fake bank to issue such checks). I believe over the 7 years I've been on eBay, I've had 2 bad checks, so there is a risk, but many easy ways to mitigate it.